How to get Glidden paint to adhere to joint compound skim coat?

[RobertMacy]

This is just in one area, everywhere else seems ok, same materials, too. and I KNOW there is no moisture leaking etc.

One small area of resurfacing, I'm having difficulty getting the paint to adhere to the skim coat. Multiple coats and months later snag and you can peel off a thick sheet the size of a sheet of paper! I've done multiple things to get paint to stick here, like even using a tack rag to wipe over the surface first, going through several tack rages, too. I swear I've seen this effect on multiple skim coats too where a layer simply peels off underneath layers.

Is the problem waiting too long before painting, or resurfacing, or not long enough? I'm about ready to tear the whole !$#@!@$# thing out and start over, but that is not a viable option this time.

Any ideas as to how to make the paint adhere? coat with glue? what?

Home Depot Glidden Paint and Sheetrock brand premixed joint compound. other areas -- no problems.

[Mayayana]

First, never use Glidden paint. It's junk. I used their oil base exterior solid house stain once, many years ago. Their own specsheet said it was 30% water! The stain went on thick but immediately settled, as though it were pumped with air. The result was very poor coverage. Apparently they were watering it down by about half, adding an emulsifier, then adding a thickener to make it seem normal. The price was right -- $10 vs $25 for Benjamin Moore. But paint that's no good is no bargain at any price.

It's worth buying real paint. (Pratt and Lambert. Sherwin Williams. Benjamin Moore has been downgraded but still isn't bad. A lot of people like California. I haven't tried it enough to know.)

For the current case, it sounds like you got something onto the compound. I'd try skim coating again and/or using a wallboard primer first.

[dpb]

What's under the skim coat??? Sounds like perhaps something underneath is volatile and outgassing or the like.

What about primer?

Despite the other poster's complaint re: Glidden (and not he was complaining of a stain and not a paint, anyway), I've used their products quite satisfactorily and believe they're in the same class as most others as long as you compare roughly equivalent price-point products.

Depending on the answer to the previous queries, you _might_ have some luck with a shield coat of cut shellac as a barrier before priming.

[trader_4]

Whatever Glidden is or isn't, I agree I don't think it's the source of the problem. I would apply a primer, then the top coat. I guess it's possible the mud was contaminated with something. I've never seen this happen.

[Vic Smith]

+1. He has a lot of trouble with paint. "Skim coat?" Use a real primer, and real paint.

[dadiOH]

What KIND of Glidden paint? What KIND of primer?

[Norminn]

Did you PRIME it? If not, start over :o) It must be primed (read label for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

[Mayayana]

| Did you PRIME it? If not, start over :o) It must be primed (read label | for suggestions), and there are special primers for new drywall.

I prime new work, but not patches. I just spot-prime those with the finish paint before I start rolling the wall. Many paints are now sold as self-priming for use on plaster or compound. Personally I find the "self-priming" idea questionable, but I've never actually seen wall paint peel because it wasn't primed first. The main function of priming on drywall is to provide an even, consistent surface for the topcoat to go over, which gives better coverage and consistency of sheen.

Priming *might* help now, but only because it might get through whatever is on the compound.

[RobertMacy]

this paint is 'self-prime' but EVERYWHERE else works great! Often I only use a paper towel to knock the 'dust' off and paint right over, and paint adheres!

Same method on this spot, didn't work! ok, try again, but this time be extremely aggressive at removing 'dustiness' still didn't stick!

I'm about to rip off/out all the fill and skim coat and start over, but very laborious.

I asked here, because I thought someone might know a 'universal' sticky primer I can put over the skim coat layer so I can move on. [without a lot of work]

[nestork]

One thing you can try, and which will probably work, is to paint over the joint compound in that area with diluted white wood glue. Basically, you mix what wood glue into water, and use that to paint over the joint compound in your problem area. The dry joint compound will suck in the liquid, and the liquid will glue all the gypsum particles together as the glue dries. There's no hard and fast rule as to how much glue to mix with how much water. Basically, you want to solution to be thin enough to be sucked into the joint compound by capillary pressure. If you have too much glue, the solution will be too viscous to do that. So, perhaps mix up a fair bit of quite dilute glue, and apply multiple coats. That way, with each coat you introduce more glue into the problematic joint compound, gradually making it harder and more strongly consolidated.

But, never ever paint directly over dried white wood glue because the moisture in the new paint or primer will re-emulsify the glue causing the joint compound to loosen up, and you'll have a mess on your hands. So, after painting the dilute glue on and allowing it to dry overnight, apply a skim coat of joint compound over that area (and after allowing that skim coat to dry) THEN paint.

Or, at least that's the way I'd proceed if you don't want to scrape off the existing joint compound and start over.

[dpb]

On 10/01/2014 9:15 AM, RobertMacy wrote: ...

...

Problem is, you've still not addressed any of the ?? raised regarding what's the actual details of the situation the fill/skim is covering; clearly if you used the same material here as in other locations there's something going on at that location that, unless cured, probably won't make any difference if repeat the same process yet again (the old saw of "the definition of insanity is..." comes to mind :) ).

There's _SOMETHING_ cause the lack of adhesion but what the cure is is completely impossible to guess unless and until can get at least some idea of what that causative agent might be.

If it were mine, likely I'd just cut the offending area out back to next two adjacent studs and patch in a new piece of drywall and refinish and quit trying to salvage a small spot.

[N8N]

Interesting problem. I had a very similar issue with Glidden paint that a friend purchased at Wal-Mart. It actually lifted *old* paint off of joint compound. I blamed the last painter for not letting the compound completely set, but now I'm not so sure.

nate

[RobertMacy]

what? Yes, it is EXACTLY like other areas [even larger near-by adjacent] that do NOT have a problem.

Can't rip out down to adjacent studs, not that type of structure.

[RobertMacy]

That's EXACTLY the answer I was thinking in terms of, except I forgot/missed about not applying paint over the glue base! I never thought of another skim coat to 'passify' the glue's surface.

Plus, multiple coats of glue from watery to thicker sound right, too.

[RobertMacy]

Interesting. I have an area down a gallery hallway that has a patch like that! The original Dunn-Edwards was sprayed on and adheres well everywhere but a small patch along a doorway. As I painted more Dunn-Edwards over the area, the stuff underneath started to roll up?! I simply stripped the area, reskim coated, and painted with no further problems.

Now you have ME wondering.

Note, this is Dunn Edwards paint this time. [from memory the base is versaflat, or such]

[dpb]

On 10/01/2014 1:03 PM, RobertMacy wrote: ...

No, it _ISN'T_ exactly alike or the results wouldn't be different.

Well, it's held onto something...

[clare]

Just a light spray of solvent based paint does the job much more easily. After doing some minor repairs and then wanting to repaint the wall, I found the patches bubled up as soon as I applied the latex based primer or top-coat. If I let the first coat dry the bubble would go back down and almost dissapear, but the next coat raised the blister again. I grabbed a can of automotive touchup paint I had left over from the old Corolla and gave the repaired spot a light coat - after a few minutes it was dry and I put a coat of latex over it without any sign of a blister - and no problem with the paint sticking or covering. Spray automotive primer in light grey would do the job just fine as well.

[RobertMacy]

I think I have a can, too! I like the simplicity of that solution.

[nestork]

Robert:

If the automotive spray primer doesn't work out for you, and you opt to go back to the diluted white wood glue, be sure to use a paint roller to apply the diluted white glue; not a brush. Brushing won't work here because the water will soften up the skim coat of joint compound, and brushing it will just make a mess. And, of course, if you roll, don't keep rolling the same area over and over again. Roll it as best you can to saturate the skim coat with dilute adhesive, and then move on to the next area. If you don't think you've added enough adhesive, don't go back. You can always add more glue with the next rolling. With each application of adhesive, the skim coat will get a bit harder.

And, of course, the dilute wood glue can be washed out of the roller sleeve just like latex paint. If you plan on applying multiple coats, keep the roller sleeve and handle and the paint tray in separate plastic bags to prevent evaporation of water from them.

[Norminn]

I'd REALLY ask at a REAL paint store. That said, PVA is used as a primer for a lot of stuff.....when I did crafts with plaster molded stuff, watered-down Elmer's Glue was used for primer. Worked great. PVA comes in gallons, which I have used to fasten linen to wood panels (like the old masters did) for oil painting.