How much should I have paid for a new furnace/AC?

Page 2 of 4  


Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"These jobs require some specialized tools and equipment. Who owns those tools? If he uses his work tools on the side, then that is equivalent to theft. His company fronts all the money, but the worker is putting wear and tear doing under the table jobs. And how about the truck that transported those tools? Who owned the truck? "
"Plus you broke the law. Were you planning to send a 1099 for the work, or were you going to commit tax fraud along the way, too? "
Seems you a know a lot about situations you weren't even involved in. You must be clairvoyant. Otherwise how do you know who's tools or vehicle someone uses? In the case of the guy that did my work, he came in his own vehicle, not one supplied by his employer. And since most of his work is done in a plant, I think it would be pretty obvious if he was walking out of the place with the employer's tools.
As for the tax issue, that's just plain silly. I hired a contractor. It's no different than hiring a computer consultant to come straighten out your PC for a day. Think you need to file tax forms for that, cause you paid him? Thankfully, it hasn't got that crazy in the US yet. The fact that a guy chooses to do part time work as well as work full time somewhere else doesn't make him a dishonest tax cheat.
"And was the worker in the union? "
Ahh, now I see where you're true concern is. What a joke!
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How did you know?

So?
Not really.

Since you hired a hack...its obvious that he isnt going to claim your job on his taxes, but boy...what if he did... I love it when I send subs 1099s and they freak out....tough shit...I got mine, you got yours and the governt gets theirs.

No..you dont. Im anti union....but Im not the poster you are replying to...however, it matters none if hes in the union or not, but since I posted it point blank first...again...you got no sense of morals there do ya pal?
I REALLY hope all you had to do was pay for the parts, since its obvious you dont have a clue if you got shafted or not.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Since you hired a hack...its obvious that he isnt going to claim your job on his taxes, but boy...what if he did... I love it when I send subs 1099s and they freak out....tough shit...I got mine, you got yours and the governt gets theirs. "
But boy what if did? What the hell are you talking about? Like if he pays taxes on it then the IRS is gonna come after me? Whether someone who did a job for me pays his taxes or not is his problem, not mine. Your ignorance is unbounded. Sure you have to give subs a 1099. You know why? Because you are contracting the subs in the course of your business. Maybe you should read the instructions for form 1099 sometime:
"Trade of business reporting only. Report on Form 1099-Misc only when payments are made in the course of trade or business. Personal payments are not reportable"
Clearly homeowners are not required to file a 1099 when they get someone to do a repair. Anybody else on this thread ever file one for a repair job they had done, regardless of who does it? Of course not, cause it's improper and just plain silly.
As are the rest of your arguments. Like asking me if I know where a repairman's tools came from. I don't know or check where anyone's tools came from. You're the one claiming they must be taken from work. Maybe that's what you do, so you expect it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Trader, you keep argueing your point. The majority of the jobs done like this are performed like we said, basically stealing from their employer. I am sorry you do not see it like this.
You are correct about the 1099, it is required for a business to an individual, but not a homeowner to an individual.
I hope you can understand why us as owners do not like this. Employees doing work on the side generally use everything that we provide in our trucks except for the equipment they buy on the side, which is usually very low end equipment with little or no warranty. If they are friend of yours it is usually even worse, because if it fails who are you going to complain to. With the little amount of money you paid him, how much warranty do you expect him to cover when it fails.
Rather than arguing with everyone that doesn't see it your way, why don't you open your mind and see it from a different view. When you were questioned about the issues we brought, why not just answer them or ignore the thread, instead you have attacked everyone who you didn't like what they said.
One other point and then I am done, most commercial guys are profficent at mostly commercial equipment, and most resi guys are profficient at resi. So just because someone works in the industry, do not automatically assume they know everything. How many Chevy mechanics can work on a Jaguar.
--
Bob Pietrangelo
snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
" instead you have attacked everyone who you didn't like what they said. "
If you follow the thread, you will see that it all I did was say that I had a friend of someone I knew who did A/C work for a living at a major plant, replace my compressor for me. It was then I who was attacked by a barrage of BS Like:
Hiring someone who does work on the side is illegal - it's not
That the guys is using his employer's tools - As far as I or anyone else knows, this is false too. The fellow worked at a plant, not as a A/C contractor doing homes and showed up in his own truck.
The guy is stealing the parts from work - Totally unfounded
That I broke the law because no permit was taken out - No permit is required here or in most areas to replace a compressor
That I'm a tax cheat and in trouble with the IRS because I didn't file 1099's - None are required, since I'm a homeowner, not a contractor.
So, sorry, if you think it's an attack when I challenge lies and BS. But it's just the truth. BTW, the compressor job was done years ago and worked fine.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You and your side-jobber made out very well because someone else got ripped-off.
Jabs

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

It's illegal to contract or hold yourself out as a contractor if you are unlicensed. We must all be dumbasses for following the rules and regulations.
Got to have complaints before you have to handle them.
Those moonlighters are doing your job with skills we paid for them to learn. Then having them cut our throat by having to compete against these no overhead SOB's just takes the cake.
--


Training costs money. Ask the last person you worked for. -me

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Another reason I love our license board here.. Get caught with no license, face jail time. Get caught subing a job to a licensed guy, where the one acting as a contractor TO sub would need one, face jail time. Get caught doing work as a homeowner without a proper license or permits, and its twice the permit fee, fines, and possible jail time.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yeah. It's the ones who thought they had a "good" guy who cut out their limit on the furnace and then their belt broke.
Or the ones who over a few years had a few friends of a friend who works for someone who basically came, collected and left with the same problem still existing or offered a $6,000-$8,000 solution for an inefficient compressor.
Or the one's who "got a deal" on a heat pump that's wired to the two thermostat wires at the outdoor unit.
Or the one who got a deal on a new smaller furnace with a 3 ton blower that has five tons of air conditioning.
or the 5 ton compressors that the "great tech" put in the 7.5 ton systems and told the customer they make it more efficient.
Or the copper ott wire or 1/2 copper pipe used as fuses.
and on and on...
Consumers can bitch but most are actually getting what they pay for. The cheapest shit money can buy.
--


Training costs money. Ask the last person you worked for. -me

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I've posted the story a thousand times, and I'm sure you will probably just throw an insult at me anyway, Bill -
But there is the flip side.
I paid top $ to what I thought was a reputable company (been around for 20+ years), for what I thought was top of the line equipment for a top notch install.
Turns out the "reputable" companys way of making a profit is to sell high $ systems to unknowing consumers (in this case - me) and then send out the cheapest labor they can find (2 or 3 teenage kids in my case).
When I asked the installers if they were going to put in new (whatever the hell you call the lines that take the coolant from inside to outside and back) they looked at me as if I were asking for the moon. (The distance from the furnace to the compressor is probably 20', and the ceiling joist spaces were wide open).
The day after they installed it, I had to have them back as all the compressor wouldn't come on.
Why? All the coolant had leaked out from one of their solder (braze?) joints.
There was an open splice made in the 120v supply line left hanging in the ceiling. When I asked the tech about it - he said "oh, don't worry. That won't ever hurt anything".
Even though I had a 2 stage stat installed for this 2 stage furnace - I realized a month or so ago that my stat isn't controlling the stages. How did I discover this? By downloading the tech sheets for my thermostat, noting that there is a connection for each stage, then looking at the thermostat and seeing there is no lead connected to the stage 2 contact. Also that there weren't enough wires in the cable that runs from the stat to the furnace to have the stat control it anyway.
The "top of the line" equipment (Lennox) turned out to be complete crap, and this past winter is the first since being installed in '00 or '01 that I havn't had to call for service. EVERY component has been replaced at least once.
Which isn't the installers fault, I understand this. Except I will say that their way of repairing a problem was to replace parts until the problem went away. Which is why they have had to come back every year, I suppose.
The one consolidation is they have replaced and/or repaired all the problems at no cost to me, which I wouldn't have gotten if I had been looking for a "deal".
And of course the lesson for the installing company (hopefully) is that if you sell a system, then send out flunkees to install it - you will lose your ass on the deal eventually. I'd say they spent roughly 24 hours (3 men one day) on the initial install. I don't think they are up to 24 hours in repair time YET, but it's close, and they don't get a cent for a minute of it. And I'm thinking the guys they send to service it are paid a bit higher wage then the kids who did the install, but I have no way to really know.
Lesson learned for me is never trust ANYBODY. I thought spending a lot of money meant quality. WRONG.
As a homeowner, do your homework. Get some referrals from people who have used the contractor you are thinking about using.
Don't look for the "deal". But don't let a supposedly reputable, long established company BS you either.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
(Snipped from) Federal Document Clearing House Congressional Testimony Capitol Hill Hearing Testimony
Thomas E. Bettcher, President and CEO of Copeland (snip) ".......The number one problem of our contractors today is the inability to hire new technicians. Another glaring problem facing our industry is product "takeback," the return of products to the manufacturer. The number one cause of product takeback is the incompetence of technicians during installation leading to the return and replacement of units, even when there is absolutely nothing wrong with the product. This unnecessary replacement of good machinery drives up warranty costs and hurts our reputation, all because the installer does not have enough training to install the system properly in the first place......"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

snip
Actually that sounds about par for the course.
--


Training costs money. Ask the last person you worked for. -me

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
    You looked into local laws and regulations, right? For example, in Phoenix, Arizona, the limit for work by a NON-CONTRACTOR is $750, parts and labor. Go ahead and Google our Registrar of Contractors in Phoenix and ou'll see mug shots of those who have been busted for this.
    And $750 won't pay for much of a compressor changeout, certainly not one done the right way with evacuation and driers.     
snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

The thread was about a furnace that was around $4000. You gave an example, I gave a counter example. The fact remains that they guy was working on a 1099 basis. If you don't send a 1099 when required, the law has been broken. If you don't think the guy was on 1099, then maybe you hired him as a domestic employee, in which case, did you send the social security withholding for him? Its one or the other, there is no "none of the above" when it comes to the IRS.
-john-
--
======================================================================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708 snipped-for-privacy@johnweeks.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ooops, I was thinking about another site where this guy only paid $400! (my bad) :-(
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

John,
1099's are required when a business deducts the monies paid as an operating expense. That's why Steve sends 1099's out to his subs, as he should.
A private individual cannot deduct the money he paid a contractor as a expense, and he already paid the tax when he earned the money in the first place. In the eyes of the IRS, it is the person who received the money that is responsible for reporting that income.
Domestic employees are a whole other issue, and if you ever get into the extremely complex but vague IRS definitions of what constitutes an employee vs. a contractor, you'd probably get a headache (as I have).
As a commercial electrical contractor, I actually allow my individually licensed employees to use company equipment to do small jobs for neighbors, family members and friends. Conversely, my employees donate a lot of time assisting me in community projects and the like... so I think it works out.
Don't jump on the guy without knowing the whole story here. While I don't approve of taking work from other tradesmen so my people can get rich on the side, helping your neighbor, family or the community does have its benefits.
Jake
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"John,
1099's are required when a business deducts the monies paid as an operating expense. That's why Steve sends 1099's out to his subs, as he should. A private individual cannot deduct the money he paid a contractor as a expense, and he already paid the tax when he earned the money in the first place. In the eyes of the IRS, it is the person who received the money that is responsible for reporting that income. "
Exactly. Good to see someone else understands the issue and that homeowners don't need to supply 1099 regardless of who fixes a furnace. This Steve character doesn't know what he's talking about. I can only imagine the BS he feeds customers.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hummmm....man...you dont know what you are talking about.
But its ok...you dont know why we are thinking you are clueless either.
BTW...soon as I get a copy from the local TV station, you can get a copy for free of the piece we did that PROTECTS homeowners from hacks, and immoral AC contractors. Its like a 20-20 piece...shows how you can get ripped off and not know it, There is no BS fed to a customer you fuck. Anything, and EVERYTHING can be shown to them, and there isn't this up sell BS, or selling of parts they don't need. When you know something about the company....then you can whine, but right now, you are just trying very unsuccessfully to try to piss me off...and its not working. Actually, if you would learn how to read, you would see that everyone here was more worried about if you got someone that didn't rip you off..but..you are so hell bent on defending your position that you didn't do anything wrong....its amazing. And yes...IF you paid more than $XXXX for your repair, and you hired out a sub, since you would be acting as your own contractor in this area, you would be required to send a 1099...but you know how each and every states laws are, what the technical issues are, and how you can deduct what you can...but then, that's why I don't do MY taxes and have an accountant on hand for it. I don't claim to know a damn thing about anything..but you wont find a more honest and that means honest to the point you might not like it person around here. Its your unit...if you are happy that you lied and cheated to get what you wanted done, that's great, but since you had a hack do the work, I really honestly sincerely hope you didn't pay more than $400 for it. IF you did, I would go to the guy and ask for my money back, since without a licence in some areas, if it dies tomorrow, you have zero warranty.
Its funny...you homeowners want truth and honesty, and when you get it point blank and in your face its not what you wanted all of a sudden. But you let some hack come in, snow you, tell you what you want to hear, get to your pocketbook, steal from you, and you THINK he did a good job, the real guys are the crooks..the crooks are the guys that made ya feel good, stole from you, and thats that. Have it your way... MY customers are smarter than that.... And no...we DONT take every job that comes down the line....some we tell to get someone else...thats one advantage of being in this industry...if a customer is not willing to listen, we can just pack up, and leave....and NOT charge for a damn thing. But...you havent a clue why....$400 man..I really hope you didnt pay more than that... Unlicenced, working on the side, stealing his employers tools...actually...should be less than that since hes not out a damn thing...bet the compressor was stolen as well...Stolen you say? Yup...charged to his boss's company, that end user of AC you keep stating, and then, slipped out the back, onto his Pinto wagon, and installed at your home. I would ask for reciepts as well...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.