How much should I have paid for a new furnace/AC?

[tech]

Does his location REQUIRE one to be pulled?

Did you

You don't pay tax on Labor!

was the technician definitely refrigerant certified,

Agreed.

but if he is

[tech]

Is it required in his particular state?

Most likely, you would have ended up with an illegal

Does his state require inspection?

And who paid for

A 1099 for $400?

or were you going to commit tax fraud along the

Does his state require either a permit or inspection?

Not saying I agree with hack work, just stating that their are different requirements for different locals.

[John A. Weeks III]

The thread was about a furnace that was around $4000. You gave an example, I gave a counter example. The fact remains that they guy was working on a 1099 basis. If you don't send a 1099 when required, the law has been broken. If you don't think the guy was on 1099, then maybe you hired him as a domestic employee, in which case, did you send the social security withholding for him? Its one or the other, there is no "none of the above" when it comes to the IRS.

-john-

[trader4]

"Since you hired a hack...its obvious that he isnt going to claim your job on his taxes, but boy...what if he did... I love it when I send subs 1099s and they freak out....tough shit...I got mine, you got yours and the governt gets theirs. "

But boy what if did? What the hell are you talking about? Like if he pays taxes on it then the IRS is gonna come after me? Whether someone who did a job for me pays his taxes or not is his problem, not mine. Your ignorance is unbounded. Sure you have to give subs a 1099. You know why? Because you are contracting the subs in the course of your business. Maybe you should read the instructions for form 1099 sometime:

"Trade of business reporting only. Report on Form 1099-Misc only when payments are made in the course of trade or business. Personal payments are not reportable"

Clearly homeowners are not required to file a 1099 when they get someone to do a repair. Anybody else on this thread ever file one for a repair job they had done, regardless of who does it? Of course not, cause it's improper and just plain silly.

As are the rest of your arguments. Like asking me if I know where a repairman's tools came from. I don't know or check where anyone's tools came from. You're the one claiming they must be taken from work. Maybe that's what you do, so you expect it.

[gofish]

for some, payback isnt an issue. its a luxury item like a hot tub i think my next luxury item will be one of these

:)

i do advocate getting the highest seer/eer system a person can afford

[tech]

Can I suggest one of the top two?

Only because the others are more expensive and don't include the nice lady! :-)

[tech]

Ooops, I was thinking about another site where this guy only paid $400! (my bad) :-(

[Jake]

John,

1099's are required when a business deducts the monies paid as an operating expense. That's why Steve sends 1099's out to his subs, as he should.

A private individual cannot deduct the money he paid a contractor as a expense, and he already paid the tax when he earned the money in the first place. In the eyes of the IRS, it is the person who received the money that is responsible for reporting that income.

Domestic employees are a whole other issue, and if you ever get into the extremely complex but vague IRS definitions of what constitutes an employee vs. a contractor, you'd probably get a headache (as I have).

As a commercial electrical contractor, I actually allow my individually licensed employees to use company equipment to do small jobs for neighbors, family members and friends. Conversely, my employees donate a lot of time assisting me in community projects and the like... so I think it works out.

Don't jump on the guy without knowing the whole story here. While I don't approve of taking work from other tradesmen so my people can get rich on the side, helping your neighbor, family or the community does have its benefits.

Jake

[trader4]

"John,

1099's are required when a business deducts the monies paid as an operating expense. That's why Steve sends 1099's out to his subs, as he should. A private individual cannot deduct the money he paid a contractor as a expense, and he already paid the tax when he earned the money in the first place. In the eyes of the IRS, it is the person who received the money that is responsible for reporting that income. "

Exactly. Good to see someone else understands the issue and that homeowners don't need to supply 1099 regardless of who fixes a furnace. This Steve character doesn't know what he's talking about. I can only imagine the BS he feeds customers.

[trader4]

Welllllllll, it actually was illegal. Was there a permit pulled.

Since when is a permit required to change an A/C compressor. That's the example I gave that got this guy Steve all in a huff. It might be in some whacko area, but for most area, it's not required.

Did you pay tax on the work,

Yes, I paid tax

was the technician definitely refrigerant certified,

Yes he was, as that is his main career at a large industrial opeartion that has enough A/C to require a guy on site.. Now tell me, how many of residential customers that call in any A/C guy ask to see his certification? So why jump on this issue?

did you cover his workmans comp and liability insurance while you were subcontracting his services,

get this straight, I didn't "subcontract" anything. I'm not in a business, just a private homeowner

did he use his own torch, recovery machine, evacuation pump, solder, braze rod, nitrogen, nitrogen regulator, refrigerant, or did he steal any of these from his employer? Did he reimburse the employer for the use of this equipment.

As far as I know, he used his own eqpt. Does any homeowner check where your eqpt came from? I can just see this "Uh, Mr. repairman, please show me all your receipts to show where your tools came from. Geez, get real.

I am gonna stop now, but I think you get the idea. It is easy to come up with about a dozen more ways it was immoral, or illegal. If he was some hack with his own tools and machinery giving you a low ball bid it would be different. but if he is employed by someone else it is most likely against company policy, immoral, or illegal.

You should stop now. Because you don't know what you're talking about. I could just as easily accuse any contractor of all kinds of things, like screwing customers, doing unneccary work. But on the basis of all the crap you've come up with, everyone is a crook because one thing or another "might" not be proper, without any knowledge or proof that it is. There are lots of guys that moonlight, run their own business on the side and work for an employer. And as I have pointed out repeatidly, he's not doing work that is in confict with his employer because the employer is an A/C end user, not a contractor that services/installs. Got it now? Or should we have a remedial class for you guys on why 1099's aren't involved here either?

[trl]

[JimL]

In this nation, it is the job of the service industry - those with yellow page ads.

We've seen them on prime time news shows stealing from customers by charging for services and parts that were not defective. I do blieve that one of the guys was honest though but the vast majority were crooks. I'd recommend the guy doing it on the side. He probably hasn't learned how to steal like the pros yet.

[webmaster]

Im not in a huff....damn...

In some areas, yes..a permit is required to put a compressor in...

If you people understood the true purpose behind inspections you would not be bitching about it.

Because we are rwquired by law to carry our card, and you would be amazed at the smarter homeowners that DO ask. We have gone to a ID tag now that has the picture ID on the front, and the EPA card on the back.

Then you did indeed subcontract the repair...

We are getting real.

See...if one of my guys ASKED if he could use my supplied equipment to help out a friend of his, the answer would be yes, but if I catch him using my equipment to install a compressor for someone, he not only gets fired, but he is charged for the time he used our equipment.

If hes moonlighting, and from what you say, he is....then perhaps his boss might have a problem with it. You claim we are assuming alot....but you are as well.

I havent seen your answer on what you paid yet...you got a compressor put in...was it more than $400 by your hack?

BTW....in areas that require a licence, that licence that we are talking about isnt an EPA card, its a state issued card, and in many areas, it is required for repairs as well. What will you do if in 3 months that compressor fails again, and you cant show a licenced company put it in? How will you get warranty service then? Lie about it?

If you would stop assuming so much, and READ these posts, you would see that there is a lesson here, even if its not what you want to hear.

[webmaster]

wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

Hummmm....man...you dont know what you are talking about.

But its ok...you dont know why we are thinking you are clueless either.

BTW...soon as I get a copy from the local TV station, you can get a copy for free of the piece we did that PROTECTS homeowners from hacks, and immoral AC contractors. Its like a 20-20 piece...shows how you can get ripped off and not know it, There is no BS fed to a customer you f*ck. Anything, and EVERYTHING can be shown to them, and there isn't this up sell BS, or selling of parts they don't need. When you know something about the company....then you can whine, but right now, you are just trying very unsuccessfully to try to piss me off...and its not working. Actually, if you would learn how to read, you would see that everyone here was more worried about if you got someone that didn't rip you off..but..you are so hell bent on defending your position that you didn't do anything wrong....its amazing. And yes...IF you paid more than $XXXX for your repair, and you hired out a sub, since you would be acting as your own contractor in this area, you would be required to send a 1099...but you know how each and every states laws are, what the technical issues are, and how you can deduct what you can...but then, that's why I don't do MY taxes and have an accountant on hand for it. I don't claim to know a damn thing about anything..but you wont find a more honest and that means honest to the point you might not like it person around here. Its your unit...if you are happy that you lied and cheated to get what you wanted done, that's great, but since you had a hack do the work, I really honestly sincerely hope you didn't pay more than $400 for it. IF you did, I would go to the guy and ask for my money back, since without a licence in some areas, if it dies tomorrow, you have zero warranty.

Its funny...you homeowners want truth and honesty, and when you get it point blank and in your face its not what you wanted all of a sudden. But you let some hack come in, snow you, tell you what you want to hear, get to your pocketbook, steal from you, and you THINK he did a good job, the real guys are the crooks..the crooks are the guys that made ya feel good, stole from you, and thats that. Have it your way... MY customers are smarter than that.... And no...we DONT take every job that comes down the line....some we tell to get someone else...thats one advantage of being in this industry...if a customer is not willing to listen, we can just pack up, and leave....and NOT charge for a damn thing. But...you havent a clue why....$400 man..I really hope you didnt pay more than that... Unlicenced, working on the side, stealing his employers tools...actually...should be less than that since hes not out a damn thing...bet the compressor was stolen as well...Stolen you say? Yup...charged to his boss's company, that end user of AC you keep stating, and then, slipped out the back, onto his Pinto wagon, and installed at your home. I would ask for reciepts as well...

[trader4]

"If you would stop assuming so much, and READ these posts, you would see that there is a lesson here, even if its not what you want to hear. "

YOU are the one that's assuming everything, not me. You assume everyone steals tools and it's up to a homeowner to know where they came from. You assume a permit is required to replace a compressor. Oh, but now you say it "may" be required. Please do tell. Do you get a permit to replace a compressor? Almost everywhere, it's not required, yet you assume it was in my case and that by not getting one I broke the law.

You assume an employer has a problem with an employee having a business on the side that doesn't conflict with the employer's business. You assume there are tax reporting issues for a homeowner when they hire a repariman and they have to file 1099's, when in fact as others have pointed out, it's totally false.

I can just imagine the BS you feed customers to take advantage of them. You sound like the shyster that comes in and sites all kinds of non-existent BS, then tells the lady, sorry dear I'm gonna have to call in some non-existent agency to red tag your furnace to scare her into getting unneccesary work done.

[Kathy]

message

in

news:CcKce.12722$ [e-mail]...

only 22

(we

that

installer.

does it state that he didn't

The first line. No new ductwork.

[stretch]

Getting some one to do it "on the side" is poor practice as he is probably not licensed or insured. Also he may be using school district tools and materials, you could both be in trouble with the law if he gets caught. If he wants to be a contractor he should do it full time and not get subsidized by the school district.

The price seems fair, not having seen the job. The VS motor and two stage makes, higher efficiency furnace would be better (90%). Since you are in upstate NY, heating efficiency will be more important than cooling efficiency, but I would have gone for 11 or 12 SEER anyway.

Stretch

[user]

I'm also in Rochester, and got pretty much exactly the same equipment installed three years ago, in a 50 year old house. Did the company happen to have the initials I H A A C?

Anyway, we paid something around $3800 to remove the old furnance, do a bit of duct work, and install new furnance and the outside A/C unit. ( There was no A/C in the house, before. ) We have a 1300 sq ft house. There was one guy working most of the day, with a second one who came in to help carry out the old, absolutely huge Perfection furnace that was there before. Boy, am I glad I didn't have to help with THAT. ;-)

- Rich

[Jabs]

Les, SURE...he is!

Jabs

[Jabs]

Les, I'm sure you got a great deal and made out very well. I'm even more sure that you side-jobber made out even better. I have no doubts about that. I just don't like it when our kids get ripped off so that someone else can get a great deal. Especially if it's tax/education dollars that got ripped-off through illegal use of school district materials *AND/OR" equipment & tools.

Jabs