How can we tell from a WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?

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On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:57:18 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm

Finding Office 2007 replacement CD's is trivial. Hint: BitTorrent.

If it were purchased online from the Microsoft site, and you have the magic serial number, you can download a replacement ISO image. <http://www.microsoft.com/office/downloads/ <https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/302822

Yep. I vaguely recall that Office 2007 works on 2 machines. Not sure.

I'm technical and I hate complexity. Teachers have students, which just love to help with such things. Some of the teenage hackers are quite knowledgeable and have impressive experience in the dark arts of computing. Ask the students for help.

Maybe, but that hasn't been my experience. I can read most anything produced by Office 2007, 2010, and 2013 with Office 2003 and the MS Compatibility Pack: <http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=3 However, if there's a problem, I just ask the author to Save As: Word 97 format.

The way you can tell when it's time to upgrade is when you can't get the work done or that it's painful to use. I have no problems reading or writing with Office 2003 and various file format converters. I find Office 2007/2010 to be tedious, awkward, clumsy, and not much of an improvement over Office 2003. In other words, a step backwards. If your really think it's time for a change, I suggest they step into the (disk) space age, and take the great leap forward to Cloud Computing with a Chromebook and Google Office.

Outlooks is dead anyway because Windoze 10 includes mail and calendar apps.

3. Pay nothing and use Google Office, LibreOffice, or similar free alternatives.

Well, you're right about not using your brain. What I find odd is that your primary reason to spend the money is the inability or unwillingness of a teacher to learn something new. I've seen this phenomenon with teachers in the past, where the monotonous repetition of cramming facts into students heads eventually leads to intellectual ossification. Even in computing, I guess perpetual reptition of the same mistakes is considered a good reason not to change one's habits. Personally, I find the logic disgusting, but I promised to improve my diplomacy and won't push the point any further.
Here's what I suggest: 1. Have the teacher beg, borrow, buy, or steal a Chromebook. I have several Acer products and find them quite good and cheap. <http://stores.ebay.com/Acer/Chromebooks-/_i.html?_fsubp70078010 The various C720 models are what I use and like (also to run Linux). Figure about $120 to $175 refurbished. 2. Have one or more of the teachers students setup the Chromebook so that it's ready to use. The learning curve is not very steep or long, but since that seems to be an issue here, faster is better. 3. Have the teacher learn to user various Cloud Computing services, such as Google Cloud, MS Skydrive/OneDrive, etc. Also have the teacher learn to run apps inside the browser. If MS Word is required, then MS has the real thing available: <https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/word-online/fiombgjlkfpdpkbhfioofeeinbehmajg 4. If the teacher makes it this far, the rest should be obvious.
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Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
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Ewald Böhm wrote:

router AC is downward compatible with slower modes.Student version lacks some features and miscellaneous things. Why do you think it is cheaper? WiFi is 2 way street one laptop has AC card does not mean it'll be faster, corresponding device at the other end should be AC capable too. If AC card talks to N card speed will be that of N.
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On 9/7/2015 10:57 PM, Ewald Böhm wrote:

There is one advantage. The dog eating the homework it too old to be believed these days. Now the excuse is, "My mother didn't pay this month's Word rent so it won't let me print"
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On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 00:42:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Does this link work for you? http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1
Look at this screenshot:
http://i.imgur.com/hBcFWkQ.jpg
If I press the customize button, I have three WiFi card choices.
1. 802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1] 2. 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] 3. Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1]
Which of those is *both* 2.4GHz and 5GHz? How do I know?
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 03:05:56 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm

Yes, it works, after about 90 seconds of loading content from all over the web.

I would guess the number 3 will certainly do 5 GHz. However, the web designers truncated the letters that designate the all the protocols, listing only the highest (fastest) 802.11ac. Presumably, that would include all the lesser protocols, including 802.11 a/b/g/n. However, I can't be certain without knowing the Intel model number of the wireless card.
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Ewald Böhm wrote:

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On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 22:48:56 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

I'm still confused.
Number 3 is: "Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth [1x1]". So, what does that tell us?
Are we saying the "ac" is both 2.4GHz & 5GHz by virtue of the "a" in "ac"?
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On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 4:40:09 AM UTC-4, Ewald Böhm wrote:

No. But if you google "Intel 802.11 ac wifi Bluetooth" you'll see it says the Intel product supports dual band. All the similar products I've seen do too and I'd say you're 99% certain the product you're buying does too. Notebooks have to work everywhere and it would be pretty dumb to have some unusual card that doesn't support the older standards.
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On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 04:50:53 -0700, trader_4 wrote:

See my post of a few seconds ago where I reported the results of three sets of phone calls to HP today.
I have asked Jeff to clarify what they told me, but here's the scoop.
In the end, they said, that the "ac" card was backwards compatible, so, that meant that the ac card contained *both* frequencies, but the caveat was that the "ac" card was *not* dual band.
When I asked them to clarify, they said it doesn't work on both frequencies at the same time.
What does that really mean? Is having two bands dual band, or not?
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On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 3:02:43 PM UTC-4, Ewald Böhm wrote:

See my previous posts. You just won't take yes for an answer. You identified the specific Intel 7265 card that goes in the PC. Googling shows it's dual band. I don't know what more you want. Instead of looking at that, you don't even address it and just ask the same thing all over again.
And one more time, how many customers do you think would be bitching if they bought a brand new PC with the latest AC Wifi adapter and it would not work with the many places that you might encounter the onlythat are still on 2.4Ghz?
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 19:02:36 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm

I just hate it when you ask consistently good questions. I feel obligated to answer when I would rather roll over and die from spending most of the Labor Day holiday running wires under a house. I'm getting too old for this kind of work.
Operating on both frequencies at the same time is called "simultaneous dual band". This is commonly found in wireless routers and wireless access points, but not in wireless client radios, like the one in your prospective HP laptop. The wireless router needs simultaneous dual band because it might have two different users, connected at the same time, each on a different band. Were the radio NOT simultaneous dual band, the traffic bandwidth would be roughly cut in half because the wireless router radio would need to switch back and forth between the two users. However, with simultaneous dual band, it could service both users at the same time without any loss of bandwidth.
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Ewald Böhm wrote:

When e say it is dual band it is. If you can't believe why don't you ask HP? So much hassle buying a laptop.
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On Tuesday, September 8, 2015 at 9:45:39 AM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:

In fairness, his issue is that while I think all the AC cards I've seen say "dual band", and I think it's 99% sure that this one does too, the HP website doesn't specifically say it. And he said that he did ask HP and couldn't get an answer from them, which is amazing. The best source here is that HP says it's an Intel product and googling what Intel has, I only see one card and it's dual band. That and the fact that it would be very dumb to sell a notebook that can't connect to older networks, is enough for me.
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On Tue, 08 Sep 2015 07:45:22 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

You have absolutely no idea what you're suggesting.
Here is the transcript!
Read it and then suggest I contact HP.
This is an automated email sent from the HP Home & Home Office Store Server. The following information is a log of your session. Please save the log for your records. Your session ID for this incident is 1938843. Time     Details 09/06/2015 08:15:30PM     System: "Welcome to hp.com sales serving the United States. Your chat transcript will be emailed to the email address that you input when registered shortly after the chat is completed." 09/06/2015 08:15:32PM     System: "If you are looking for HP product support, service, parts or non-US help, please visit: http://www8.hp.com/ us/en/contact-hp/contact.html" 09/06/2015 08:15:34PM     System: "If you still need US sales or ordering assistance, please stay in queue. Our chat sales representative will be with you shortly." 09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Session Started with Agent (Paige M) 09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Ewald Bohm: "Does the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz? http://www.costco.com/HP-15z- Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html" 09/06/2015 08:16:14PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for contacting the hp.com Sales Center and welcome to our Labor Day Sale. My name is Paige. I've read your question and am ready to assist you." 09/06/2015 08:16:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "I can see you need to know if the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz. I'd be glad to check on this for you." 09/06/2015 08:17:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige M." 09/06/2015 08:17:45PM     Ewald Bohm: "I just want to know if the HP 15z laptop has a WiFi card that is dual band (i.e., it has both 2.4Ghz and 5GHz) or not. The idiotic specification sheet on the HP web site doesn't say!" 09/06/2015 08:18:04PM     Ewald Bohm: "This is the spec sheet:" 09/06/2015 08:18:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "http://store.hp.com/us/en/ ConfigureView? storeId151&catalogId051&langId=-1&catEntryId8656&quantity=1&color=Natural +silver" 09/06/2015 08:18:42PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for the link, let me go and check it." 09/06/2015 08:20:08PM     Ewald Bohm: "That spec sheet lists three options for WiFi cards, but not one mentions the band!
802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1] Included in price 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$10.00 Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$30.00" 09/06/2015 08:21:45PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for your patience." 09/06/2015 08:23:06PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige, Also, is there tax and shipping to NJ?" 09/06/2015 08:23:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "The 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is 5GHz. The Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is at 433 Mbps stream at 3GHz." 09/06/2015 08:24:38PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive there is tax in the unit but not in the shipping." 09/06/2015 08:25:37PM     Agent (Paige M): "I am not entirely sure though, it is best to contact our Product Expert to have more details about your concern." 09/06/2015 08:25:49PM     Agent (Paige M): "I’ve checked all of my resources and I'm still unable to validate this." 09/06/2015 08:25:54PM     Agent (Paige M): "Please call 866.221.4553? An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM – 10PM MT." 09/06/2015 08:26:21PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige, I have never seen in my life a WiFi card that was 5GHz and not ALSO 2.4 GHz; but I have seen many 2.4GHz WiFi cards that were not 5GHz. I have NEVER seen in my life (I don't believe it exists) a 3GHz WiFi card. Are you sure about those specs? Th" &nbsp    ey make no sense, to me, and I know this stuff pretty well. 09/06/2015 08:27:27PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige, Are the HP telephone support folks open tomorrow? (Labor Day)" 09/06/2015 08:28:40PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive they are open but you can try calling." 09/06/2015 08:29:16PM     Agent (Paige M): "We did not get any instructions if they are closed or not. But it is better to try to call still." 09/06/2015 08:29:31PM     Agent (Paige M): "Is there anything else I can assist you with today?" 09/06/2015 08:30:29PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige This was not satisfactory. May I talk to a supervisor? The question is SIMPLE. It's actually EXTREMELY SIMPLE. It's not a difficult question. The answer you gave makes absolutely no sense. Is there someone else I can speak with? This is not a dif" &nbsp    ficult question. 09/06/2015 08:32:30PM     Ewald Bohm: "Are you there?" 09/06/2015 08:33:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "?" 09/06/2015 08:33:31PM     Agent (Vann): "Hi!" 09/06/2015 08:35:14PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann Thank you for trying to help me. I am asking a simple question. Do you need me to repeat the question?" 09/06/2015 08:36:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "Is anyone there?" 09/06/2015 08:36:47PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am here." 09/06/2015 08:36:53PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the long wait." 09/06/2015 08:37:02PM     Agent (Vann): "I was reading your chat session with Paige." 09/06/2015 08:40:18PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann, OK. I'll wait while you review the session so that I won't need to repeat anything. Basically, I can't believe it's this difficult to just ascertain whether the laptop has a WiFi card that handles both the 2.4GHz and the 5GHz bands. Also, since" &nbsp    that simple question wasn't answered, it's hard to know if the answer I got regarding the shipping being free but that there was tax, is correct, or not. Neither of these questions is difficult for someone who handles basic (and these are EXTREMELY BASIC &nbsp    questions) computer questions. 09/06/2015 08:41:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I see that you have questions, Ewald." 09/06/2015 08:41:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "If the spec sheet simply gave the information that it should give, I wouldn't even NEED to ask these questions." 09/06/2015 08:41:47PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know the broken record; and I know that you're taught to "reflect" the customer's question - but let's just get the answer please (I was a customer support manager for two decades)." 09/06/2015 08:41:54PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I understand that our website product information is very limited." 09/06/2015 08:43:31PM     Agent (Vann): "The shipping charge is zero and that is for free." 09/06/2015 08:44:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Sales tax will apply to the product price itself and its computation is based on the shipping zip code and state." 09/06/2015 08:45:12PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, Thank you for confirming that the sales tax is based on where the item will be shipped and that the shipping is free. Now all we need to know is whether the three WiFi card options available for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both." 09/06/2015 08:45:30PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am actually checking on that." 09/06/2015 08:46:04PM     Agent (Vann): "Honestly, our tools and resources are very limited to answer your question." 09/06/2015 08:46:16PM     Agent (Vann): "I totally understand why the agent referred you to our product expert." 09/06/2015 08:46:25PM     Agent (Vann): "However, let own this question and I will this to you." 09/06/2015 08:46:28PM     Agent (Vann): "*answer." 09/06/2015 08:46:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Now, can you give me 1-2 minutes of your time." 09/06/2015 08:46:41PM     Agent (Vann): "I am checking on something here." 09/06/2015 08:47:43PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald," 09/06/2015 08:47:46PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for that." 09/06/2015 08:48:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I am here - and will wait." 09/06/2015 08:49:00PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I can tell this by the decription of the WLAN card. Everytime you see a wlan card listed as b/g/ n, it is a single band (2.4 GHz) card." 09/06/2015 08:49:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann" 09/06/2015 08:50:03PM     Agent (Vann): "I found more information here." 09/06/2015 08:52:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "oooPS. Hi VAnn, I believe you can have 5GHz on "n"but not on "g" but I can check that out. Certainly "ac" would benefit from 5GHz, but are you saying that only the "ac" card is 5GHz?" 09/06/2015 08:52:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I am verifying that." 09/06/2015 08:53:17PM     Agent (Vann): "I cannot confirm it yet and this is based on something that I am not sure of." 09/06/2015 08:54:33PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann Look at this web site (http://pocketnow.com/2014/01/23/5ghz-wifi ). Notice that "b" and "g" are ONLY 2.4GHz - but - notice that either "n" or "ac" is also 5GHz." 09/06/2015 08:57:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks!" 09/06/2015 08:57:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Let me check that." 09/06/2015 08:59:32PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann So, we still don't have the answer, since clearly both "n" and "ac" can do 2.4GHz and 5GHz - the only difference is that "n" can do either one at a time while "ac" does both at the same time - but that's not my question. My question is whether th" &nbsp    e "n" and "ac" cards from HP for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both. Thanks for "owning" this issue to the conclusion - since - it's actually an easy question - for someone who has the spec to answer. In fact, I fault HP for not putting that answer on &nbsp    the web site since it's a CRITICAL question to ask! 09/06/2015 09:00:18PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I see where you are coming from." 09/06/2015 09:00:53PM     Agent (Vann): "I even sent a quick email to the marketing department and web content team to put a brief pertinent description of each wi-fi options." 09/06/2015 09:04:48PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, As I had said, I was a customer-support manager for twenty years and I found only about 10% of the support team would take the time to solve long-term problems such as missing information in a web page; therefore, I do appreciate that you are in" &nbsp    the top 10% for "owning" the problem, and I appreciate that. I'm still not sure though, whether the specific cards available for this laptop have "both" 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, since we have ascertained that "n" can be either (just not at the same time), w &nbsp    hile "ac" also can be either (but if it has both, it can do both at the same time). So, the FREQUENCY BAND is a critical piece of data that a person needs to figure out if their laptop will connect to the "n" or "ac" 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands. 09/06/2015 09:04:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, as far as what I understood in my readings here. You need a dual band that can support both 2.5 and 5 Ghz." 09/06/2015 09:05:26PM     Agent (Vann): "This is what you need WLAN 802.11 ac 2x2 ." 09/06/2015 09:05:35PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, Yes. I will ONLY BUY a dual-band card. I am just trying to figure out which card(s) that fit that laptop are dual band." 09/06/2015 09:05:50PM     Ewald Bohm: "Note: It's 2.4GHz and not 2.5GHz." 09/06/2015 09:06:10PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the typo error." 09/06/2015 09:06:18PM     Agent (Vann): "So you are saying that your router has a dual band?" 09/06/2015 09:08:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann, I know MANY (most) "ac" cards will be dual band. But, remember, an "ac" card can also be one or the other. So, I am just trying to CONFIRM whether the "n" and "ac" cards you offer actually make use of both bands. (I know that the "n" can make use" &nbsp    of either band, and so can the "ac", with the only difference not mattering to this question that "ac" can do it simultaneously). But, "ac" can't do it simultaneously if it doesn't have both bands, and "n" cards can be of three types (1) only 2.4, (2) o &nbsp    nly 5Ghz, or (3) both 2.4GHz and 5GHz. As for my router, it is dual band (both 2.4GHz and 5Ghz) and it is an AC1750. 09/06/2015 09:14:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann The 802.11n spec allows up to 4 transmit and four receive antennas (802.11n supports up to 4x4), so, again, just knowing it's 2x2 or 4x4 does not tell me what the bands are." 09/06/2015 09:17:33PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I am sorry if I kept you waiting." 09/06/2015 09:17:40PM     Ewald Bohm: "I'm here ..." 09/06/2015 09:18:06PM     Agent (Vann): "This is overly complicated and it would be better you consult our product expert." 09/06/2015 09:18:23PM     Agent (Vann): "As far as I know that if it has a 1x1 that is a single band which can support up to 2.4ghz/" 09/06/2015 09:19:36PM     Ewald Bohm: "The 1x1 means one (dedicated) transmit antenna and 1 (dedicated) receive antenna; the antenna itself can be any frequency (either 2.4GHz or 5GHz) but almost all the time, it is 2.4GHz (I agree) but it does not have to be since the 1x1 is indicating the de" &nbsp    dicated "channels" and NOT the frequency band! 09/06/2015 09:20:46PM     Agent (Vann): "It looks you've done more research on this and you get a lot of understanding how these things work." 09/06/2015 09:21:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you check this link http:// www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/pdf/next-gen-80211ac- wifi-for-dummies.pdf" 09/06/2015 09:21:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know that the 2x2 has two dedicated "channels" (i.e., antennae), 2 for transmit and 2 for receive. But, again, that does not indicate the FREQUENCY. It "could" mean that they are using 2 frequencies - but - it could also mean that they're NOT using 2 d" &nbsp    ifferent frequencies. 09/06/2015 09:22:07PM     Ewald Bohm: "checking the link ..." 09/06/2015 09:22:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Looking for the specific page ..." 09/06/2015 09:24:08PM     Agent (Vann): "I also read from the HP Forums." 09/06/2015 09:24:09PM     Agent (Vann): "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/ Wireless-Internet-Home-Networking/WiFi-Connections-HP-laptop-unable-to- find-5Ghz-wireless/td-p/3300523" 09/06/2015 09:24:31PM     Agent (Vann): "A dual band card would be listed as either a/b/g/n or a/g/n." 09/06/2015 09:25:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "VAnn, you'll notice that, on page 10 of the wifi for dummies, it confirms what I said, which is (verbatim): "In the vernacular of the new multispeed Wi-Fi stan - dards, the number of send and receive antennas and stream configurations are noted as 1x1 (o" &nbsp    ne antenna supporting one data stream), 2x2 (two antennas sup - porting two data streams), and 3x3. Table 2-2 compares the performance of antenna and stream configurations in the 802.11n and 802.11ac standards" 09/06/2015 09:25:31PM     Ewald Bohm: "So, the 2x2 just means the number of antennas. It tells us NOTHING about the frequency." 09/06/2015 09:26:15PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I will have to refer this to our product expert and I shall email you the answer." 09/06/2015 09:26:38PM     Agent (Vann): "This would consume so much of our time and this is something that I cannot confirm." 09/06/2015 09:26:44PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi VAnn, An "n" card can be dual band - but an "n" card can also be single band. That is why the SPECIFICATION is so important. We'd never have to ASK the question if the spec simply said what it should say!" 09/06/2015 09:26:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I admired how you are really want to get the answer of this." 09/06/2015 09:28:23PM     Agent (Vann): "I will email the product expert with your questions." 09/06/2015 09:28:24PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann, If the specifications were written correctly, we'd never have to ask. In the book you kindly referenced, you'll see this exact quote on the first line of page 11: "Wi-Fi works over two spectrum bands: 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. Older 802.11bgn uses the" &nbsp    2.4 GHz frequency" 09/06/2015 09:28:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you summarize your questions now so I can forward this now." 09/06/2015 09:28:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I will be able to email you within 24-248hrs once I get a reply from the product expert." 09/06/2015 09:29:09PM     Ewald Bohm: "Later, in that same page, it says what I'm trying to tell you, which is that "n" can be either 5GHz or 2.4GHz or both." 09/06/2015 09:29:14PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyond on my basic technical knowledge, Ewald." 09/06/2015 09:29:23PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK ... gimme a sec... to simplify..." 09/06/2015 09:30:12PM     Agent (Vann): "Sure." 09/06/2015 09:32:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Please do as this already rambling in my head." 09/06/2015 09:33:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I would like to know if the three available WiFi cards for the HP 15z laptop (http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/ Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1#!&TabName=specs) are 2.4GHz, 5GHz, or both. I realize that the "n" 802.11 spec can be either only 2.4GHz o" &nbsp    r 5GHz or both (just not at the same time); and I am aware that the 802.11 "ac" spec also allows for either only 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both (possibly at the same time); so the fact that it's "ac" or "n" tells me NOTHING about the frequency band! In addition, &nbsp    I realize that 1x1 means one dedicated transmit antenna per channel and 1 dedicated receive antenna per channel, just as 2x2 means 2 dedicated transmit antennas per data channel and 2 dedicated receive antennas per data channel, which again, tells me NOTH &nbsp    ING about the frequency band! 09/06/2015 09:34:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I will take note of this and what you exactly write here will be forwarded to the product expert." 09/06/2015 09:34:31PM     Agent (Vann): "I am very sorry if I failed to answer by myself." 09/06/2015 09:34:57PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyong my power and knowledge. I really to get an answer for you immediately but this mix up in my head." 09/06/2015 09:35:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for the typo error." 09/06/2015 09:36:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK. Thank you Vann, I was hoping to purchase the laptop, on the web, tonight, but I will await the response from your technical expert. I don't consider this a difficult question because EVERYONE would want to know what frequency the WiFi card operates in" &nbsp    - and - you can't tell from the fact that it's "n" or "ac" or 1x1 or 2x2, etc. I have never seen any WiFi card advertised that didn't tell the user the FREQUENCY (so I am happy that you forwarded information to the web- marketing team to let them know the &nbsp    ir web pages are missing critical information). 09/06/2015 09:36:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, this is not a common questions from most of our customers and you are the only person ask this. that is why I am so amazed how concern and smart you are." 09/06/2015 09:37:48PM     Agent (Vann): "You can actually get an answer immediately on this if you will just call now our Product Expert on this number 866.221.4553. An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00 AM -" &nbsp    10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM – 10PM MT. 09/06/2015 09:38:34PM     Agent (Vann): "We also dont want to confirm any answers to you if the information is not coming from the official HP source." 09/06/2015 09:38:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I only got the information provided earlier from my research." 09/06/2015 09:39:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, Are you sure they are open now? It is 10:45pm mountain time on a Sunday (and tomorrow is Labor Day, which is a national holiday in the USA) so I'm not even sure they will be OPEN tomorrow." 09/06/2015 09:39:29PM     Agent (Vann): "I shall email you with the answer to this address snipped-for-privacy@gilltaylor.ca." 09/06/2015 09:40:11PM     Agent (Vann): "Probably they are now close and I am checking earlier with the upper management what services or departments will be open tomorrow." 09/06/2015 09:40:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Anyway, please wait for my email within 24-48hrs." 09/06/2015 09:42:03PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK., Thanks Vann for your help. I just want the information so that I don't make a mistake when ordering the laptop on the web. I will await your email." 09/06/2015 09:42:16PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I completely understand." 09/06/2015 09:42:26PM     Agent (Vann): "I know that you want to make things certain in your purchase." 09/06/2015 09:42:41PM     Agent (Vann): "Since you don't need any further assistance, would it be okay if I close this chat?" 09/06/2015 09:43:17PM     Ewald Bohm: "Yes. Thanks for your help. I will await your email. If they are open tomorrow (they probably are not) then I will also try to call them." 09/06/2015 09:43:46PM     Agent (Vann): "You are welcome. I am sorry we end this chat now without adequate resolution of your concerns." 09/06/2015 09:43:52PM     Ewald Bohm: "I realize it's 10:15 am in India, so, I hope you have a good rest of your day!" 09/06/2015 09:43:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Ciao," 09/06/2015 09:44:07PM     Agent (Vann): "I will also make a further research on this on my own to learn from it." 09/06/2015 09:44:14PM     Agent (Vann): "You too." 09/06/2015 09:44:19PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks for your time today." 09/06/2015 09:44:25PM     Agent (Vann): "It was really a good chat experienced." 09/06/2015 09:44:28PM     Agent (Vann): "We appreciate you contacting us with your concerns. If you have additional questions regarding our products, you can contact us at 1-888-222-0029 from 4am-11pm Pacific, Monday- Sunday." 09/06/2015 09:44:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Thank you for choosing HP. We appreciate your business." 09/06/2015 09:44:34PM     Session Ended If you require further assistance, you may contact us at snipped-for-privacy@hp.coThis is an automated email sent from the HP Home & Home Office Store Server. The following information is a log of your session. Please save the log for your records. Your session ID for this incident is 1938843. Time     Details 09/06/2015 08:15:30PM     System: "Welcome to hp.com sales serving the United States. Your chat transcript will be emailed to the email address that you input when registered shortly after the chat is completed." 09/06/2015 08:15:32PM     System: "If you are looking for HP product support, service, parts or non-US help, please visit: http://www8.hp.com/ us/en/contact-hp/contact.html" 09/06/2015 08:15:34PM     System: "If you still need US sales or ordering assistance, please stay in queue. Our chat sales representative will be with you shortly." 09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Session Started with Agent (Paige M) 09/06/2015 08:15:59PM     Ewald Bohm: "Does the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz? http://www.costco.com/HP-15z- Laptop-|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html" 09/06/2015 08:16:14PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for contacting the hp.com Sales Center and welcome to our Labor Day Sale. My name is Paige. I've read your question and am ready to assist you." 09/06/2015 08:16:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "I can see you need to know if the HP 15z laptop come with dual band WiFi, both 5Ghz and 2.4GHz. I'd be glad to check on this for you." 09/06/2015 08:17:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige M." 09/06/2015 08:17:45PM     Ewald Bohm: "I just want to know if the HP 15z laptop has a WiFi card that is dual band (i.e., it has both 2.4Ghz and 5GHz) or not. The idiotic specification sheet on the HP web site doesn't say!" 09/06/2015 08:18:04PM     Ewald Bohm: "This is the spec sheet:" 09/06/2015 08:18:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "http://store.hp.com/us/en/ ConfigureView? storeId151&catalogId051&langId=-1&catEntryId8656&quantity=1&color=Natural +silver" 09/06/2015 08:18:42PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for the link, let me go and check it." 09/06/2015 08:20:08PM     Ewald Bohm: "That spec sheet lists three options for WiFi cards, but not one mentions the band!
802.11b/g/n WLAN [1x1] Included in price 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$10.00 Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] +$30.00" 09/06/2015 08:21:45PM     Agent (Paige M): "Thank you for your patience." 09/06/2015 08:23:06PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige, Also, is there tax and shipping to NJ?" 09/06/2015 08:23:59PM     Agent (Paige M): "The 802.11b/g/n WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is 5GHz. The Intel 802.11ac WLAN and Bluetooth(R) [1x1] is at 433 Mbps stream at 3GHz." 09/06/2015 08:24:38PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive there is tax in the unit but not in the shipping." 09/06/2015 08:25:37PM     Agent (Paige M): "I am not entirely sure though, it is best to contact our Product Expert to have more details about your concern." 09/06/2015 08:25:49PM     Agent (Paige M): "I’ve checked all of my resources and I'm still unable to validate this." 09/06/2015 08:25:54PM     Agent (Paige M): "Please call 866.221.4553? An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00 AM - 10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM – 10PM MT." 09/06/2015 08:26:21PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige, I have never seen in my life a WiFi card that was 5GHz and not ALSO 2.4 GHz; but I have seen many 2.4GHz WiFi cards that were not 5GHz. I have NEVER seen in my life (I don't believe it exists) a 3GHz WiFi card. Are you sure about those specs? Th" &nbsp    ey make no sense, to me, and I know this stuff pretty well. 09/06/2015 08:27:27PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige, Are the HP telephone support folks open tomorrow? (Labor Day)" 09/06/2015 08:28:40PM     Agent (Paige M): "I beleive they are open but you can try calling." 09/06/2015 08:29:16PM     Agent (Paige M): "We did not get any instructions if they are closed or not. But it is better to try to call still." 09/06/2015 08:29:31PM     Agent (Paige M): "Is there anything else I can assist you with today?" 09/06/2015 08:30:29PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Paige This was not satisfactory. May I talk to a supervisor? The question is SIMPLE. It's actually EXTREMELY SIMPLE. It's not a difficult question. The answer you gave makes absolutely no sense. Is there someone else I can speak with? This is not a dif" &nbsp    ficult question. 09/06/2015 08:32:30PM     Ewald Bohm: "Are you there?" 09/06/2015 08:33:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "?" 09/06/2015 08:33:31PM     Agent (Vann): "Hi!" 09/06/2015 08:35:14PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann Thank you for trying to help me. I am asking a simple question. Do you need me to repeat the question?" 09/06/2015 08:36:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "Is anyone there?" 09/06/2015 08:36:47PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am here." 09/06/2015 08:36:53PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the long wait." 09/06/2015 08:37:02PM     Agent (Vann): "I was reading your chat session with Paige." 09/06/2015 08:40:18PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann, OK. I'll wait while you review the session so that I won't need to repeat anything. Basically, I can't believe it's this difficult to just ascertain whether the laptop has a WiFi card that handles both the 2.4GHz and the 5GHz bands. Also, since" &nbsp    that simple question wasn't answered, it's hard to know if the answer I got regarding the shipping being free but that there was tax, is correct, or not. Neither of these questions is difficult for someone who handles basic (and these are EXTREMELY BASIC &nbsp    questions) computer questions. 09/06/2015 08:41:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I see that you have questions, Ewald." 09/06/2015 08:41:05PM     Ewald Bohm: "If the spec sheet simply gave the information that it should give, I wouldn't even NEED to ask these questions." 09/06/2015 08:41:47PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know the broken record; and I know that you're taught to "reflect" the customer's question - but let's just get the answer please (I was a customer support manager for two decades)." 09/06/2015 08:41:54PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I understand that our website product information is very limited." 09/06/2015 08:43:31PM     Agent (Vann): "The shipping charge is zero and that is for free." 09/06/2015 08:44:03PM     Agent (Vann): "Sales tax will apply to the product price itself and its computation is based on the shipping zip code and state." 09/06/2015 08:45:12PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, Thank you for confirming that the sales tax is based on where the item will be shipped and that the shipping is free. Now all we need to know is whether the three WiFi card options available for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both." 09/06/2015 08:45:30PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I am actually checking on that." 09/06/2015 08:46:04PM     Agent (Vann): "Honestly, our tools and resources are very limited to answer your question." 09/06/2015 08:46:16PM     Agent (Vann): "I totally understand why the agent referred you to our product expert." 09/06/2015 08:46:25PM     Agent (Vann): "However, let own this question and I will this to you." 09/06/2015 08:46:28PM     Agent (Vann): "*answer." 09/06/2015 08:46:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Now, can you give me 1-2 minutes of your time." 09/06/2015 08:46:41PM     Agent (Vann): "I am checking on something here." 09/06/2015 08:47:43PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald," 09/06/2015 08:47:46PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for that." 09/06/2015 08:48:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I am here - and will wait." 09/06/2015 08:49:00PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I can tell this by the decription of the WLAN card. Everytime you see a wlan card listed as b/g/ n, it is a single band (2.4 GHz) card." 09/06/2015 08:49:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann" 09/06/2015 08:50:03PM     Agent (Vann): "I found more information here." 09/06/2015 08:52:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "oooPS. Hi VAnn, I believe you can have 5GHz on "n"but not on "g" but I can check that out. Certainly "ac" would benefit from 5GHz, but are you saying that only the "ac" card is 5GHz?" 09/06/2015 08:52:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I am verifying that." 09/06/2015 08:53:17PM     Agent (Vann): "I cannot confirm it yet and this is based on something that I am not sure of." 09/06/2015 08:54:33PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann Look at this web site (http://pocketnow.com/2014/01/23/5ghz-wifi ). Notice that "b" and "g" are ONLY 2.4GHz - but - notice that either "n" or "ac" is also 5GHz." 09/06/2015 08:57:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks!" 09/06/2015 08:57:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Let me check that." 09/06/2015 08:59:32PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann So, we still don't have the answer, since clearly both "n" and "ac" can do 2.4GHz and 5GHz - the only difference is that "n" can do either one at a time while "ac" does both at the same time - but that's not my question. My question is whether th" &nbsp    e "n" and "ac" cards from HP for this laptop are 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both. Thanks for "owning" this issue to the conclusion - since - it's actually an easy question - for someone who has the spec to answer. In fact, I fault HP for not putting that answer on &nbsp    the web site since it's a CRITICAL question to ask! 09/06/2015 09:00:18PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I see where you are coming from." 09/06/2015 09:00:53PM     Agent (Vann): "I even sent a quick email to the marketing department and web content team to put a brief pertinent description of each wi-fi options." 09/06/2015 09:04:48PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, As I had said, I was a customer-support manager for twenty years and I found only about 10% of the support team would take the time to solve long-term problems such as missing information in a web page; therefore, I do appreciate that you are in" &nbsp    the top 10% for "owning" the problem, and I appreciate that. I'm still not sure though, whether the specific cards available for this laptop have "both" 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands, since we have ascertained that "n" can be either (just not at the same time), w &nbsp    hile "ac" also can be either (but if it has both, it can do both at the same time). So, the FREQUENCY BAND is a critical piece of data that a person needs to figure out if their laptop will connect to the "n" or "ac" 2.4GHz or 5GHz bands. 09/06/2015 09:04:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, as far as what I understood in my readings here. You need a dual band that can support both 2.5 and 5 Ghz." 09/06/2015 09:05:26PM     Agent (Vann): "This is what you need WLAN 802.11 ac 2x2 ." 09/06/2015 09:05:35PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, Yes. I will ONLY BUY a dual-band card. I am just trying to figure out which card(s) that fit that laptop are dual band." 09/06/2015 09:05:50PM     Ewald Bohm: "Note: It's 2.4GHz and not 2.5GHz." 09/06/2015 09:06:10PM     Agent (Vann): "Sorry for the typo error." 09/06/2015 09:06:18PM     Agent (Vann): "So you are saying that your router has a dual band?" 09/06/2015 09:08:41PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann, I know MANY (most) "ac" cards will be dual band. But, remember, an "ac" card can also be one or the other. So, I am just trying to CONFIRM whether the "n" and "ac" cards you offer actually make use of both bands. (I know that the "n" can make use" &nbsp    of either band, and so can the "ac", with the only difference not mattering to this question that "ac" can do it simultaneously). But, "ac" can't do it simultaneously if it doesn't have both bands, and "n" cards can be of three types (1) only 2.4, (2) o &nbsp    nly 5Ghz, or (3) both 2.4GHz and 5GHz. As for my router, it is dual band (both 2.4GHz and 5Ghz) and it is an AC1750. 09/06/2015 09:14:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann The 802.11n spec allows up to 4 transmit and four receive antennas (802.11n supports up to 4x4), so, again, just knowing it's 2x2 or 4x4 does not tell me what the bands are." 09/06/2015 09:17:33PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I am sorry if I kept you waiting." 09/06/2015 09:17:40PM     Ewald Bohm: "I'm here ..." 09/06/2015 09:18:06PM     Agent (Vann): "This is overly complicated and it would be better you consult our product expert." 09/06/2015 09:18:23PM     Agent (Vann): "As far as I know that if it has a 1x1 that is a single band which can support up to 2.4ghz/" 09/06/2015 09:19:36PM     Ewald Bohm: "The 1x1 means one (dedicated) transmit antenna and 1 (dedicated) receive antenna; the antenna itself can be any frequency (either 2.4GHz or 5GHz) but almost all the time, it is 2.4GHz (I agree) but it does not have to be since the 1x1 is indicating the de" &nbsp    dicated "channels" and NOT the frequency band! 09/06/2015 09:20:46PM     Agent (Vann): "It looks you've done more research on this and you get a lot of understanding how these things work." 09/06/2015 09:21:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you check this link http:// www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/pdf/next-gen-80211ac- wifi-for-dummies.pdf" 09/06/2015 09:21:58PM     Ewald Bohm: "I know that the 2x2 has two dedicated "channels" (i.e., antennae), 2 for transmit and 2 for receive. But, again, that does not indicate the FREQUENCY. It "could" mean that they are using 2 frequencies - but - it could also mean that they're NOT using 2 d" &nbsp    ifferent frequencies. 09/06/2015 09:22:07PM     Ewald Bohm: "checking the link ..." 09/06/2015 09:22:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Looking for the specific page ..." 09/06/2015 09:24:08PM     Agent (Vann): "I also read from the HP Forums." 09/06/2015 09:24:09PM     Agent (Vann): "http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/ Wireless-Internet-Home-Networking/WiFi-Connections-HP-laptop-unable-to- find-5Ghz-wireless/td-p/3300523" 09/06/2015 09:24:31PM     Agent (Vann): "A dual band card would be listed as either a/b/g/n or a/g/n." 09/06/2015 09:25:00PM     Ewald Bohm: "VAnn, you'll notice that, on page 10 of the wifi for dummies, it confirms what I said, which is (verbatim): "In the vernacular of the new multispeed Wi-Fi stan - dards, the number of send and receive antennas and stream configurations are noted as 1x1 (o" &nbsp    ne antenna supporting one data stream), 2x2 (two antennas sup - porting two data streams), and 3x3. Table 2-2 compares the performance of antenna and stream configurations in the 802.11n and 802.11ac standards" 09/06/2015 09:25:31PM     Ewald Bohm: "So, the 2x2 just means the number of antennas. It tells us NOTHING about the frequency." 09/06/2015 09:26:15PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, I will have to refer this to our product expert and I shall email you the answer." 09/06/2015 09:26:38PM     Agent (Vann): "This would consume so much of our time and this is something that I cannot confirm." 09/06/2015 09:26:44PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi VAnn, An "n" card can be dual band - but an "n" card can also be single band. That is why the SPECIFICATION is so important. We'd never have to ASK the question if the spec simply said what it should say!" 09/06/2015 09:26:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I admired how you are really want to get the answer of this." 09/06/2015 09:28:23PM     Agent (Vann): "I will email the product expert with your questions." 09/06/2015 09:28:24PM     Ewald Bohm: "HI Vann, If the specifications were written correctly, we'd never have to ask. In the book you kindly referenced, you'll see this exact quote on the first line of page 11: "Wi-Fi works over two spectrum bands: 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. Older 802.11bgn uses the" &nbsp    2.4 GHz frequency" 09/06/2015 09:28:35PM     Agent (Vann): "Can you summarize your questions now so I can forward this now." 09/06/2015 09:28:54PM     Agent (Vann): "I will be able to email you within 24-248hrs once I get a reply from the product expert." 09/06/2015 09:29:09PM     Ewald Bohm: "Later, in that same page, it says what I'm trying to tell you, which is that "n" can be either 5GHz or 2.4GHz or both." 09/06/2015 09:29:14PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyond on my basic technical knowledge, Ewald." 09/06/2015 09:29:23PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK ... gimme a sec... to simplify..." 09/06/2015 09:30:12PM     Agent (Vann): "Sure." 09/06/2015 09:32:36PM     Agent (Vann): "Please do as this already rambling in my head." 09/06/2015 09:33:10PM     Ewald Bohm: "I would like to know if the three available WiFi cards for the HP 15z laptop (http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/ Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1#!&TabName=specs) are 2.4GHz, 5GHz, or both. I realize that the "n" 802.11 spec can be either only 2.4GHz o" &nbsp    r 5GHz or both (just not at the same time); and I am aware that the 802.11 "ac" spec also allows for either only 2.4GHz or 5GHz or both (possibly at the same time); so the fact that it's "ac" or "n" tells me NOTHING about the frequency band! In addition, &nbsp    I realize that 1x1 means one dedicated transmit antenna per channel and 1 dedicated receive antenna per channel, just as 2x2 means 2 dedicated transmit antennas per data channel and 2 dedicated receive antennas per data channel, which again, tells me NOTH &nbsp    ING about the frequency band! 09/06/2015 09:34:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I will take note of this and what you exactly write here will be forwarded to the product expert." 09/06/2015 09:34:31PM     Agent (Vann): "I am very sorry if I failed to answer by myself." 09/06/2015 09:34:57PM     Agent (Vann): "This is already beyong my power and knowledge. I really to get an answer for you immediately but this mix up in my head." 09/06/2015 09:35:06PM     Agent (Vann): "I am sorry for the typo error." 09/06/2015 09:36:01PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK. Thank you Vann, I was hoping to purchase the laptop, on the web, tonight, but I will await the response from your technical expert. I don't consider this a difficult question because EVERYONE would want to know what frequency the WiFi card operates in" &nbsp    - and - you can't tell from the fact that it's "n" or "ac" or 1x1 or 2x2, etc. I have never seen any WiFi card advertised that didn't tell the user the FREQUENCY (so I am happy that you forwarded information to the web- marketing team to let them know the &nbsp    ir web pages are missing critical information). 09/06/2015 09:36:55PM     Agent (Vann): "Ewald, this is not a common questions from most of our customers and you are the only person ask this. that is why I am so amazed how concern and smart you are." 09/06/2015 09:37:48PM     Agent (Vann): "You can actually get an answer immediately on this if you will just call now our Product Expert on this number 866.221.4553. An HP expert will be able to assist you and answer any remaining questions that you have. Their hours of operation are: 7:00 AM -" &nbsp    10:00 PM Mountain, Monday-Friday and Saturday & Sunday from 8AM – 10PM MT. 09/06/2015 09:38:34PM     Agent (Vann): "We also dont want to confirm any answers to you if the information is not coming from the official HP source." 09/06/2015 09:38:48PM     Agent (Vann): "I only got the information provided earlier from my research." 09/06/2015 09:39:15PM     Ewald Bohm: "Hi Vann, Are you sure they are open now? It is 10:45pm mountain time on a Sunday (and tomorrow is Labor Day, which is a national holiday in the USA) so I'm not even sure they will be OPEN tomorrow." 09/06/2015 09:39:29PM     Agent (Vann): "I shall email you with the answer to this address snipped-for-privacy@gilltaylor.ca." 09/06/2015 09:40:11PM     Agent (Vann): "Probably they are now close and I am checking earlier with the upper management what services or departments will be open tomorrow." 09/06/2015 09:40:20PM     Agent (Vann): "Anyway, please wait for my email within 24-48hrs." 09/06/2015 09:42:03PM     Ewald Bohm: "OK., Thanks Vann for your help. I just want the information so that I don't make a mistake when ordering the laptop on the web. I will await your email." 09/06/2015 09:42:16PM     Agent (Vann): "Yes, I completely understand." 09/06/2015 09:42:26PM     Agent (Vann): "I know that you want to make things certain in your purchase." 09/06/2015 09:42:41PM     Agent (Vann): "Since you don't need any further assistance, would it be okay if I close this chat?" 09/06/2015 09:43:17PM     Ewald Bohm: "Yes. Thanks for your help. I will await your email. If they are open tomorrow (they probably are not) then I will also try to call them." 09/06/2015 09:43:46PM     Agent (Vann): "You are welcome. I am sorry we end this chat now without adequate resolution of your concerns." 09/06/2015 09:43:52PM     Ewald Bohm: "I realize it's 10:15 am in India, so, I hope you have a good rest of your day!" 09/06/2015 09:43:53PM     Ewald Bohm: "Ciao," 09/06/2015 09:44:07PM     Agent (Vann): "I will also make a further research on this on my own to learn from it." 09/06/2015 09:44:14PM     Agent (Vann): "You too." 09/06/2015 09:44:19PM     Agent (Vann): "Thanks for your time today." 09/06/2015 09:44:25PM     Agent (Vann): "It was really a good chat experienced." 09/06/2015 09:44:28PM     Agent (Vann): "We appreciate you contacting us with your concerns. If you have additional questions regarding our products, you can contact us at 1-888-222-0029 from 4am-11pm Pacific, Monday- Sunday." 09/06/2015 09:44:32PM     Agent (Vann): "Thank you for choosing HP. We appreciate your business." 09/06/2015 09:44:34PM     Session Ended If you require further assistance, you may contact us at snipped-for-privacy@hp.comm
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On Tue, 8 Sep 2015 08:40:06 +0000 (UTC), Ewald Böhm

It tells me that HP marketing is clueless. The assumption is that anything that does "ac" will also do the lesser protocol of "a". Since "ac" only works on 5GHz, and nobody today makes a 5GHz only radio, it's a fair assumption that anything with "ac" will be dual band. However, that's an assumption. I tried to find the Intel card used in the 15z and failed. You'll probably have to ask HP pre-sales, this I predict will be clueless. You might try the HP support forums. <http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Laptop-and-Notebook-Computers/ct-p/Notebook
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Jeff Liebermann snipped-for-privacy@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
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I am lost on the questions and answers that you guys are posting. I never hear of different WiFi to me all are universal speed depend on your OS system, and the host and router if in use. as much I know all laptops have capability to hook to WiFi but you will need password unless system is open. no to many of those around but you can be lucky.
"EwaldBöhm" wrote in message
How can we tell from an HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
I'm trying to help my sister buy an HP laptop on the web.
My problem is that I contacted HP Support (via their chat mechanism) because USA phone support is not open now, and technical support isn't open tomorrow.
All I want to know is HOW to tell if a WiFi card has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz.
For $300 at Costco, plus $30 for shipping, this seems to be a decent 15.6-inch display laptop: http://www.costco.com/HP-15z-Laptop -|-AMD-E1-|-Windows-10.product.100222779.html
The main drawback from that Costco offering is that the WiFi isn't "ac", there's no mention of bluetooth, and the laptop doesn't come with Office 2013.
But, we can fix that at the HP web site.
If we go to the HP site to buy it, we can customize it to add what Costco doesn't have (and get free shipping). http://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp/Laptops/hp-pavilion-15z-laptop-m7d88av-1 #!&TabName=specs
0. We start with the HP price of $350 which comes with twice as much memory as Costco's (4GB -> 8GB) plus free shipping (worth $30), so it's only $20 more than the Costco price. 1. We add the Microsoft Office Home & Student 2013 from HP for an extra $140 (either boxed, or already installed - I suggest they get the box for easier re-use later). https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CTOAddonsView?partNumber=QM4342 2. We add a WiFi "ac" card from HP for an extra $30 but is it dual band, 2.4GHz and 5GHz or not? 3. We add an extra wireless mouse and keyboard (no wires!) for $30 (because my sis wants that). https://store.hp.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CTOAddonsView?partNumber=LV290AA%23ABA The resulting price is $550 + tax (free shipping).
For that price, I see she gets a good laptop, but I chatted for half an hour with the HP sales chat people and they couldn't confirm if this 802.11 n/ac laptop has both 2.4GHz and 5GHz or if it only has one of those two frequencies.
HP chat sent me this URL but it just confirms that both "ac" and "n" don't have to be dual band; either one can be a single band. Also, it confirmed the 1x1 or 2x2 or 4x4 just means the number of dedicated data transmit and data receive antennas, which says absolutely nothing about the frequency. http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/pdf/next-gen-80211ac-wifi-for-dummies.pdf
My question is ... How can we tell from the HP WiFi card spec whether the NIC is 2.4GHz or 5GHz, or both?
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tony944 wrote:

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Tony Hwang wrote:>> http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/pdf/next-gen-80211ac-wifi-for-dummies.pdf

-AC mode runs on 5GHz band, -N can run on either. So, it'll be dual band card, 2 stream one(2 antennas) Full -AC needs 4 antennas and there are almost no such thing yet for users. Of course it'll have Gbit Ethernet controller too. Does it have Bluetooth? Bluetooth mouse and keyboard? 8 GB memory is good. You don't have to spend 140.00 on MS Office. Freeware Openoffice is compatible with MS Office. Let her try it and you can buy MS later on student discount. And what cpu, and Video controller?(what is native resolution?) I am sure the laptop will have HDMI port and sufficient no. of USB port. And my(very robust game machine with enough cpu and video controller power) daily use laptop is 14", i7 quad cpu, 8GB memory Nvidia 740M video card and DVD r/w drive, etc. gotten for ~500.00 on eBay. Built-like tank. Never let me down. I never owned HP laptop. Personally I just don't like it. But I used many different Enterprise grade HP work stations or server. Most people use Intel 7260 dual band WiFi card. I have it in all our laptop except my wife's Asus GX60 which has Bigfoot Killer N card. I seldom use desktop any more. At home I use 17" Asus ROG with SSDs, 16GB memory, Nvidia 840m video card, i7 quad cpu, Blue ray R/W drive, etc. I use this for my real work. triple boot, W7 x64, Ultimate, W10 Pro and Ubuntu. (What real work? I am retired old fart, LOL!)
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On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 14:51:42 -0600, Tony Hwang wrote:

Maybe. Maybe not. Jeff just explained that only "a" has 5GHz. The rest can be 2.4 GHz.
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Ewald Böhm wrote:

I can buy a legit key for MS Office 2015 for 30.00 or so. Download it and use that key to activate. Always worked for me. I even bought keys for my surveillance camera use on Synology NAS. Real mode, 80MHz wide is full -AC with 4 MIMO(4 antennas) and some will work on MU-MIMO(yet to come by Qualcom, Quantenna, etc.) You just specify dual band card as an option. Some HP laptops don't like any card. HP has white list of WiFi card.
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