High Efficiency Furnace

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wrote:

Same day service may mean they just come out. They may have to order a part and hard telling when they will come back with that. A major outage may overwhelm the ammount of service men they have and you are not going to get that same day service.
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And more negativity in this group!
While it is true that they may have to order a part. But the same day service is guaranteed if calling before 5 PM. If necessary the fellow will work into the evening.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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It may be the straight truth. In that case, I'd rather have negative on the usenet list, and be better equipped to face reality.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
And more negativity in this group!
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

IF the parts are available. My under-warranty new furnace needed an eductor fan -it still worked but was very noisy. None of the dealers had it in stock - and nor did the distributor. It was going to be a 3 week minimum wait - so I just took it out and brazed the hub where the blower wheel was (supposed to be) fastened to the shaft.
20 minute job, about a buck's worth of brazing rod and gas - and it's been perfect for something like 8? years.
NO maintenance contract would have managed to solve the problem in less than 3 weeks.

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On Thu, 4 Oct 2012 12:32:13 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"

An "outage" is a different issue. Even if they have to finds parts, you're still ahead getting same day service.
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High-efficiency units can't exhaust upward because the exhaust gas isn't warm enough to rise that far- they use a fan to blow the exhaust pretty much horizontally and out through a wall.
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Pavel314 wrote:

furnace in a pantry off the kitchen. She wants to replace it with a high efficiency furnace, taking her from 80% efficiency to 95% efficiency,for the fuel savings.

efficiency unit in that space but didn't give a good reason, at least not one that she understood. One complicating factor is that she thiks that there is just one chimney outlet on the roof which is shared by the two adjoining condos but I haven't actually seen the unit as it's hundreds of miles away.

just remove the old unit and put in a new one unless the high efficiency units are somehow larger, hotter or whatever.

Hi efficiency one has different fresh air intake and venting. Also it produces condensated water from near perfect combustion needing drain. It is not just a simple swap out. I observed it when ours was upgraded.
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The contractor that talked to the OP obviouosly did not tell the OP the whole story in an understandable manner. All the comments made about the venting situation for the new furnaces was exactly correct.
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Or a condensate pump to pump it someplace.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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Well in the UK gas appliances can't share a flue with other fuels, probably the same in the USA. If your friend wants a high efficiency heating system it will have to be wet (ie recirculating water and radiators). No chimney is necessary, most boilers are room sealed. ie air is drawn from outside into the boiler. Exhaust gases are just piped to the nearest point outside, usually the wall the boiler is fixed to via a plastic pipe.
Read up about it here:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condensing_boiler I think your friend needs to speak to a more knowledgeable installer.

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The datasheets for all the 93, 95%+ gas furnaces out there say that once again, harry doesn't know what he's talking about.

Just like they are with a high efficiency condensing gas furnace. Imagine that....

harry, you're the one who obviously needs to do the reading.
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On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 23:48:26 -0700 (PDT), harry

furnace in a pantry off the kitchen. She wants to replace it with a high efficiency furnace, taking her from 80% efficiency to 95% efficiency,for the fuel savings.

efficiency unit in that space but didn't give a good reason, at least not one that she understood. One complicating factor is that she thiks that there is just one chimney outlet on the roof which is shared by the two adjoining condos but I haven'tactually seen the unit as it's hundreds of miles away.

to just remove the old unit and put in a new one unless the high efficiency units are somehow larger, hotter or whatever.

In the UK they may not have such advanced central heating. And what other fuel was mentioned, by the way??? GENERALLY if someone is using natural gas for heat, they use natural gas for ALL fuelled appliances. Same with propane. The chances of having a combination of any 2 of propane, natural gas, oil, or coal in North America is extremely slim.
Might be different in "harry's world"
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On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:52:36 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I mostly agree. But people with oil heat often use natural gas for their stove. At least they do in my neighborhood where every house has gas, but a few still use oil to heat. Why baffles me*. Around here it costs three times as much to heat with oil than gas. And that was a year ago. The difference may be greater now.
* I have one wealthy neighbor that I have been hassling to change. He won't. His oil delivery is often at 5:30 in the morning. The truck is huge. Sometimes my windows vibrate while it sits there. Then it goes through five gears to get up the hill to my house and then another three gears to get to the stoplight.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

Around here MUCH more likely to cook with electricity if using an oil furnace. Pretty hard to get the gas company to put in a meter for just a stove and/or water heater - and if you get the meter in, only a total fool would continue to heat with oil.
Now oil heat and a PROPANE water heater and/or stove might be a bit more common - but still electric is a more common combination with oil - and if you heat with propane, water heat and stove are most commonly also propane.
Now I DO have a friend who just got Natural Gas installed on the farm - he has 2 furnaces - one wood and one gas (replaced the oil furnace) - heats with wood most of the time, but has the gas there for when they are not home or when they don't want to bother stoking and babysitting the wood furnace - which burns free firewood from downed trees etc on the farm.
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On Thu, 04 Oct 2012 21:41:18 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

I'm in Brooklyn and electricity around here is very expensive. My house, and that neighbor's house, is pre-electric and has had gas since they were built in 1891.
Yes, the neighbor is a fool. His response is it would be expensive to convert. My response to him is it costs nothing to get a proposal to find out. And then he could at least do the math.
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
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wrote:

In my case, just changing to a more efficient oil fired boiler is paying for itself with savings. Wish I could get gas though.
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wrote:

Typical answer "we always had it that way" going back to 1948 or so when the coal burner was converted to oil.
Other reason is people don't have the money to pay for the conversion so they pay far more than that over time. They can afford the oil budget, not the initial $500 to change over.
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When I moved in, I had oil furnace, electric stove, water heater, dryer. My electric bill was rather small. I inherited 250 gallons of oil. I got by first winter by buying additional 150 gallons. Took almost 6 minutes for furnace exchanger to heat up, then it would output up to 140 degrees out of registers. That was after I speeded up the fan, and took rug off hidden return vents. The furnace was literally overheating on each cycle before I moved in. That furnace would shake the house when it fired up. I prayed it would last the winter, scary looking thing. Had natural gas line run. Switched to gas furnace, gas stove, gas water heater, as dryer. Now my electric bills are higher, gas moderate. Cost around $1000 for gas line. It was a one day install, gas line, furnace/air. Must have been at least 6 guys working on that. Luckily the gas company man was able to come that day.
Greg
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On 10/3/2012 3:37 PM, Pavel314 wrote:

Coincidentally, there was a story in the local paper just today on this general topic. Excerpted from the article:
"Homeowners facing the prospect of a new furnace will soon have fewer and costlier choices.
The only options in Minnesota and 29 other Northern states will be furnaces with 90 percent efficiency or better, under new rules from the U.S. Department of Energy. Contractors won't be allowed to put in less-efficient models after May 1.
The biggest effect will be on owners of townhouses, condos and single-family homes with furnaces in interior rooms. More-efficient furnace models typically vent out the side wall of a residence, which in some installations can significantly run up the job's cost.
One problem for townhouse owners is that some homeowner associations don't allow side venting of PVC pipes due to aesthetics, and homes where the furnace is in an interior room often require complicated installations adding between $1,000 and $4,000 to the cost, said Jonathan Melchi, director of government affairs at Heating and Air Conditioning Distributors International."
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