End Of Run Switch To New Outlet

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On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 09:10:44 -0600, Rick wrote

That's exactly what I did.
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On Sunday, January 26, 2014 9:45:58 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Exactly. If it's desired or at least acceptable that the switch control both the light and the outlet, then the outlet can be connected in parallel with the light, without running any additional wiring. The light should have a switched hot and a neutral.
Still not clear what he has and exactly what he's trying to do.
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On 01/26/2014 10:51 AM, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote: X

X
I already told that to the OP but from his reply it's obvious he does not know what "in parallel" means and therefore should not be working on this.
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You say in another message that the light was once wired hot all the time. If that is true, instead of going into the switch just run a two wire to the light. (BK,WT,G) You may have to use a hole saw to make another hole in the top of the light, but you will have much more room to make splices.
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On Saturday, January 25, 2014 4:52:17 PM UTC-8, James wrote:


If I read you right, you have
Incoming to the switch box is black, white and ground (I hope you have a ground).
Outgoing to light is black, white and ground
Incoming black goes to switch with the outgoing black coming off the other switch terminal.
Incoming white is wire nutted to the outgoing white.
That is the way it _should_ be.
To add the run to the box.
Incoming black pigtailed to switch and outgoing to box black.. Existing outgoing black remains on switch.
all three whites are wire nutted together.
Keep in mind that all switches must switch the hot wire.
Harry K
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No, that's the way it _could_ be.
It's possible (probable) that all he has is a single run of Romex from the light fixture, with the black and white being used as a switched hot.
In another post he said that the light was always "on" when he bought the house and he had an electrician install a switch. The easiest way to do that would be to simply run a length of Romex from the fixture to a new switch box so that the hot can be switched. Based on that post, I'm pretty sure that there is no neutral in the switch box.
Yes, it's possible that the electrician rewired the run to the fixture, routing a neutral through the switch box, but that seems like a lot of extra work just to add a switch.
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On Saturday, January 25, 2014 9:48:21 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:




Right you are and it is indeed the most likely way the switch was added. If so, adding a box won't be simple due to the missing neutral. I would assume (and yes, I know) that the electrician would have marked the white as being a black (or red).
Harry K
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On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 03:30:47 -0600, Harry K wrote

Wasn't remarked as it should have been hence the temporary confusion on my part.
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On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 23:48:21 -0600, DerbyDad03 wrote

Your assumption was correct. No neutral in the switch box. Fixed that with 3 conductor.
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On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 23:17:13 -0600, Harry K wrote

Thank you for the advice. I figured it out. I didn't realize I was looking at a switch loop so I needed a 3 conductor wire to replace the 2 conductor.
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On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 18:52:17 -0600, James wrote

Um this was a switch loop and I failed to recognize it for what it was :( Anyhow I replaced the 2-conductor wiring from the light to the switch with 3-conductor so I would have a neutral in the switch box from the power source. From there of course it was easy to get a working outlet. Sheesh. Thanks to all who pointed out what I had would not work.
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So now you have a switch box stuffed with too many wires, right?
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On Sunday, January 26, 2014 5:18:24 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:


:(

ith


esh.


How so? He _replaced_ the 2wire with 3-wire A normal full-depth single gan g box is more than roomy enough for a switch/receptacle and 3 wires plus gr ound. Even had he puit the outlet in a separate box a single gang box with switch only still has enough room for 6 conductors plus ground.
Harry K
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Unless I'm mistaken he now has:
3 wires from the light, 2 wires to the receptacle, all grounds count as 1, the switch counts as 2.
3+2+1+2 = 8
_If_ the box is at least 3 x 2 x 3.5, and the wire is 14 g, then he is OK. It depends on the box installed by the electrician when the switch was added and the size of the used by the OP.
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On Monday, January 27, 2014 12:15:46 AM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:



3 wires to the receptacle if remote.

He only has 6 conductors, 7 counting ground, if the receptacle is remote. You are counting pigtails which are not included in conductor count.
If he installed a combination receptacle/switch he only has 3 conductors and a ground.
Harry K
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Let's assume for the time being that the receptacle is remote
You saw how I got my number via the breakdown of wires, switches, etc.
I'll now ask you to break your number of "6" and "7".
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On Monday, January 27, 2014 12:16:07 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:


I had that all wrong, only two (plus ground) to the remote receptacle.


I had that wrong again, only 5 conductors for a remote box.



I had it wrong - somehow I was counting a 3 wire to the receptacle box, it is only 2 conductors and ground. for a total of 6
You are counting wires twice going to the switch.
3 coming in of which 2 go to the switch for a total of 3. 2 going out for a total of 5 + 1 to account for the grounds. Messy part is two wire nuts for the whites and ground (3 if he has to pigtail the blacks.
Depending on how the switch is made he could stack the outgoing black to the hot side of the switch doing away with the need for one pigtail. An extra 2 conductors do not magically appear
According to your figures one could never wire a single gang box with a switch and power beyond with 12 guage. It is done every day.
Harry K
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No, I am not. I am counting the _switch_ itself. Why aren't you? It's in the box, you can't ignore it.
See here, as well as many other sources. The switch itself counts as 2 conductors.
http://frentzandsons.com/Hardware%20References/numberofwiresinabox.htm
His 2 lengths of Romex (3+2) equals 5 conductors plus a single ground. That's 6. The switch itself counts as 2 conductors. 6 plus 2 equals 8.
Based on the chart above, if he is using 14 g wire the box must be 3.5 inches deep.
I'll humbly eat my hat (with hot sauce) if I'm wrong, but that's my understanding of what he has and how it works.
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On Monday, January 27, 2014 2:04:09 PM UTC-8, DerbyDad03 wrote:


Looks like you are correct. I have at least two such boxes wired with 12 gauge and they were wired by a licensed electrician. Have seen such elsewhere as well.
Harry K
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OK, now that we are in agreement, I have a question. I don't mean this as any type of gloat, but I just can't figure out where some of your comments came from.
In one response you said "You are counting pigtails." Since I detailed the exact elements I was counting, I'm wondering how you got the impression that I was counting pigtails.
In another response you said, "You are counting wires twice going to the switch." Once again, since I detailed the exact elements I was counting, I don't see where I ever did that.
I'm just trying to understand where the confusion came from. Perhaps I could have worded my explanation differently? Any thoughts?
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