Electrical Questions

Page 1 of 3  

I have several electrical questions:
1. Is it allowable to connect 12 gauge wire to a 15amp breaker in the service panel ?
2. How many half height single pole breakers are allowed in the main panel rated for 200amp ?
3. I noticed something very interesting in a 3-way switch arrangement in my home. To power a receptacle, they grabbed an unswitched feed from the light fixture by connecting a black wire to both travelers in the box. Since there is always power on exactly one of them, this seems to work. Is this allowable ?
4. Is it ok to wire more than 4 receptacles downstream from a GFCI outlet ?
Thanks...
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes.
As many as will fit.
Not sure on 3 &4.
By the way I noticed your name, we are probably distant cousins.
--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

#12 to avoid voltage drop.

200a.
object that it violates a basic requirement that devices only be used for the purpose they were intended, but I can't see why this would be unsafe; assuming it is done reasonably.

from that it is fine. Just beware that long circuit may be subject to problems and those problems can be hard to find. My house had one GFCI breaker, and they put 4 bathrooms and 3 outdoor outlets on it. When one outdoor outlet went bad and created a ground fault it was a real trip to find the problem; especially since I didn't even know it was on the breaker.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, it's called a loop switch.
It's fairly a common way to power a switch.
It also comes in handy when you want to switch half of an outlet.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Something is missing from your description here if you connect both travelers to a load you would have connected them to each other and the light would be on all of the time.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 04:47:18 GMT, "Tom Horne, Electrician"

A lot of people say "both" when they mean "each". Connecting to EACH traveler wouldn't cause the same problem.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Connecting the *same*thing* to each certainly will -- and connecting each traveler to opposite sides of a receptacle results in a receptacle that never works.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

How does that differ from the normal method of wiring a 3-way switch?

That's stupid, when the hot can be switched just as easily.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 19:01:14 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

Think about it. You have a 3-way switch in the house to control a light at the garage. You also have a receptacle in the garage. (the other 3 way is at the garage) You can have the light and receptacle work with 3 wires.
You can not have that work if you switch the hot.
If it is so stupid, then you figure it out.
I know you will say....why not use 4 wires?
I agree. That is better, but I have seen people use 2 wires to go to 3-way swithches and use the bare as a traveler.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

er.....never mind. Again! I kind of left the receptacle out of my first message.
I have learned to like crow.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Maybe you're thinking of a "Carter" three way system?
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Of course you can. What makes you think it won't work?

I already have... but I think you're missing something.

I've seen lots of dangerous practices. Never that particular one, though.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) writes:

The standard way to do this would run 4 wires (plus ground) to the garage: neutral, unswitched hot, and 2 alternately-switch hots from the 3-way switch. But it takes 4 wires. Without the hot that bypasses the 3-way switch in the house, you don't have an unswitched hot for the receptacle (unless you use something like a relay to always feed the receptacle from the hot one of the two switched wires, which has other problems).
The system being described feeds the garage hot, neutral, and a traveler that is switched between hot and neutral. So feeding the outlet is no problem, but you can end up with both bulb contacts hot when the lamp is off.
    Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mar 6, 6:22 pm, snipped-for-privacy@cs.ubc.ca (Dave Martindale) wrote:

You said it much better than I could have.
What I meant to add was the fact that it puts a switch in the neutral connection is what makes it against the code.
It puts the light in series with the common points of the switches and connects each traveler to the hot and neutral.
If you erase the red line back to the connection points in the drawing that RMB posted it makes it more clear to see. http://www.code-electrical.com/necexamquestions.html
BTW that is exactly what I was talking about, but it is still in left field as the travelers of the switch are never connected together. Which is what the OP claims.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Or you can run three wires, and have the receptacle switched along with the light -- perfectly safely, and in compliance with Code.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

A true California three way switches both so the light is off when connected between two hots or two neutrals. (the hots and neutrals are connected to the 3 way switch traveler terminals-the commons of each switch run to the light socket).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Sorry, it's not clear to me exactly what you mean by that. Can you post a drawing (even if it's just "ASCII Art" in a text post here)?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Here's a diagram of the Carter three way. I'm sure they only call it California, on the left coast: http://www.code-electrical.com/necexamquestions.html
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 21:51:15 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I just posted some ASCII drawings. What's being described seems to be like my #2.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Just got home from work. I haven't checked all the posts but it looks like someone must have posted a diagram before I could. From the way it's wired (single wire coming from each switch to the fixture), I'd guess it originated with knob&tube..
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.