Do these exist: "Instant on" or very rapid start CFL???

[---MIKE---]

I have an LED bulb in a floor lamp and it spreads the light just like an incandescent bulb.

---MIKE---

[mkirsch1]

So what kind of cockamaime, contrived logic is behind this requirement?

The reason I ask is to not necessarily be hurtful, but to see if perhaps there is some other solution to your problem. People come in this newsgroup on a regular basis asking for some piece of Rube Goldberg unconventional uninvented technology to solve a problem that a different piece of common technology would solve with a lot less hassle.

[zek]

te:

Most situations are directional.

Greg

[zek]

ote:

I leave some CFLsI just leave on all the time. I used to leave a hallway light on all the time. It didn't have anything to do with wait time, it was about having to turn it off.

I installed two ceiling lamps from THD and to my horror found it came with bayonet base, which cost more when replacing. This bathroom lamps need replaced, one come on red and takes forever to illuminate.

Greg

[willshak]

Smarty wrote the following:

Why do you need an instant on CFL bulb? Are you using it for flash photography? My house is loaded with 13W CFLs. I have them at the top and bottom of my basement stairs. I turn them on when I start down and I can see the stairs immediately. By the time I get to the bottom of the stairs, they are at full or 90% of full brightness. If I am reading a book and turn on the table lamp with a 13 watt CFL, by the time I sit down in the chair and find the place where I left off, the bulb is at full brightness.

[DA]

From zero to full brightness in a flash - that's how fast they come on when you start them with high voltage. Maybe not as fast as LED but for all practical purposes it can be described as instant.

In this case it does not. They essentially become cold-cathode fluorescent lamps - the type used to back-light your LCD monitor. I don't believe mercury vapors even plays any role - as far as I understand it the plasma starts (again, instantaneously) in the noble gas itself without any help from the electrons emitted by the filament. Indeed, like I said before, both filaments may even be bad - they'll still come on.

OK, by now I have your critique of my advice. But where's YOUR advice?

------------------------------------- /\_/\ ((@v@)) NIGHT ():::() OWL VV-VV

[Malcom "Mal" Reynolds]

In a hallway, it just won't matter

[Shaun Eli]

If you get a bulb that's twice as bright then even if it takes a half- second to reach half-brightness you've met your requirements.

And if you can't find a bright enough bulb (you're already at 120 watt equivalent, let's say) then maybe there's room for a Y connector and two bulbs?

[Smarty]

As I posted earlier in this thread, my question arises from my attempt to provide bright hallway and staircase access for elderly people with diminished eyesight. The original 100 watt incandescent bulbs are only switched on briefly, and CFLs take too long to get adequately bright.

As it turns out, the recommendation from "Mal" was 100% correct. I went to Lowes today, found the recently introduced General Electric "hybrid technology" bulbs he described, and took some home for testing.

They work superbly well.

The two part hybrid design automatically turns on both the CFL and halogen filament to provide full intensity output upon start-up. As the CFL warms up, the halogen bulb is extinguished, and within maybe a minute or so the lamp is 100% CFL.

There is a small color shift as the color temperature shifts from warmer (approx 2500 degrees Kelvin) to a cooler, bluer CFL temperature as the halogen lamp is replaced by the CFL output. The effect is not something you would normally see unless you are looking for it.

The 75 watt equivalent version of the bulb consumes 20 watts, produces over 1200 lumens output, is warrantied for 5 years for free replacement, and is estimated to last for 7.3 years in average service. They are sold at Lowes for $13 for two bulbs.

This is an ideal solution for me, saving a lot of watts, maintaining true "instant on", and having (supposedly) a long, warrantied life expectancy.

The nearest LED equivalent at Lowes was being offered on "clearance" for $29 for 1 bulb. Much longer predicted life but considerably lower lumens, 840 to be exact.

I am extremely impressed with this new, dual hybrid design from a lighting performance point of view. Time will tell if their MTBF / failure / life expectancy prediction holds.

I personally trust that GE will stand behind their warranty and are unlikely to be exaggerating their claims. On the other hand, I have several examples of "instant on" CFLs from Sylvania, Phillips, etc. which are not in any way delivering anywhere near full output until literally a minute or two after they are switched on. This GE is in a class by itself.

Thanks again to all who responded. As always, the knowledge and talent on this forum is incredible and very much appreciated.

[mm]

I see that you have worked this out. Okay. I'll do it.

[Roy]

=3D=3D Probably rips it off with his teeth. If I worked in a store where customers wanted to "try out" light bulbs before buying them I would call security and have them escorted out. Never heard of such an idiot thing before. =3D=3D

[RonB]

It depends on what you call instant:

We have some Wally World quick starts above our bath vanity and they come "on" pretty much at the flip of the switch. However, they are very dim when they come on and take about one minute to come up to full speed. This is OK with us because full bright isn't what we want at 6:00am.

Other places, like our bedroom closet, have normal Wallyworld bulbs that have about a 1 second lull, then come on near full brilliance.

My suggestion is sample a few and then buy more of the ones that meet your needs.

[bud--]

Linear tubes are likely to come on at (or near) full brightness. CFLs have a problem.

You, of course, have no idea if your idea would work for CFLs. The time lag problem is vaporizing the mercury.

No one in their right mind would connect a CFL tube to a home-brew power supply. For an operating lamp, ballasts are essentially a constant current source. You likely had constant voltage or are losing efficiency with a resistor.

"Instant start" fluorescent tubes, by the way, start by high voltage without initial electron emission from a filament. (I believe some CFLs start that way also.)

You have no clue how fluorescents work. It is by fluorescence, in this case some chemicals on the tube wall convert UV to visible light. Noble gasses do not produce UV. They ionize and provide an initial arc which vaporizes the mercury that is in all fluorescent lamps. The vaporized mercury becomes part of the arc. Vaporized mercury has a strong UV line. It produces all the fluorescence.

It is, by the way, how most "neon" tubes work - all of them that are not neon red-orange.

I suggest the OP ask people which CFLs have a short time to full brightness.

---------------------------------------- Continuing the tradition of useless advice from the homeownershub.

[mike]

A second is not very long in the grand scheme of things, but our brains are accustomed to "instant on", so we jump to the conclusion that something is busted long before the second elapses. Doesn't take many times to become accustomed to "lower expectations".

I have a couple of fixtures with two lamps. I use one fast one and use the other hole to use up the slow ones.

[mike]

Sounds like you'd be a great "customer service trainer". I think I've been in some of your stores.

If you want cheap bulbs, you're probably watching for sales that happen on "bulk packages". Anything over two bulbs often comes in an easily openable cardboard container.

YOU should never do anything YOU find unreasonable.

[hrhofmann]

But the savings in electricity they talk about are when the bulbs are on for a long time. If, as you imply, the bulbs are only on for a short time, you are essentially just using the halogen portion of the bulb, which is nowhere as efficient as the CFL portion of the bulb. So, your savings are much much less than stated if the bulbs are only on for short intervals....

[Smarty]

You're right Bob that the savings may not be great since the lights are intended to be kept on mostly for moving through the hallways and staircases at night and are switched with switches at both ends of the corridors.

Many times the lights are turned on and then not turned off, so there will be savings many nights of the year. Even when they are turned off properly, the walking time for the hallway and the staircase can be many minutes long, particularly for people who have mobility issues. Even in these situations, for 10 minute lighting periods, the CFL will still provide all of the savings for maybe 90% of the total time, after the first minute of halogen light extinguishes.

These are a good solution for my specific problem, but may not make a lot of sense in general if instant lighting output is not a concern. Most people are apparently quite content with a short sixty to ninety second warm up, and for these situations, the cheaper non-hybrid CFL is a better solution.

I would love to use LEDs but there does not seem to be any which put out

1000 or more lumens which cost anywhere near $6 per bulb.

[chaniarts]

when i lived in scandanavia in the early 80's, the cashier would test the bulbs at the checkout counter to ensure they worked, before ringing them up.

[Malcom "Mal" Reynolds]

Why?

[N8N]

Seeing the number of CFL's I've returned over the years - mostly "dimmable" ones that weren't but also within the last week a 3-way one whose second setting was noticeably dimmer and of a drastically higher color temp than the first - I'm thinking that trying before you buy is not a bad idea. Haven't done it yet, but may start. For now, I'm sticking with Sylvania and GE only until I find another brand that I find works reliably. Sadly, as with many consumer goods, the vast majority of CFLs on the market save for the very very plain single wattage spirals seem to be unmitigated garbage.

Let me guess, you are a CSR for Home Despot?

nate