adhesive for wall tile in a shower

[gpsman]

When called upon to support your assertion, simply reasserting it suggests you're a k00k. -----

- gpsman

[gpsman]

I'll give you an hour to support your assertion.

Show your work! -----

- gpsman

[RicodJour]

Won't even take two minutes.

You need a shower pan liner under a I'm-sure-you-will-admit-superior- tile-job mud shower base. If a good tile job was truly, automatically and magically waterproof, you wouldn't.

Houses move. QED.

R

[gpsman]

2 minutes to fail to demonstrate how rock prevents a structure from moving...?

Nice work. -----

- gpsman

[Uno]

I appreciate all comments, but there is no drywall in this install that is going to turn mushy. If you haven't built in the high desert, then you just don't know. If you took any of the houses on my street and teleported them to Chicago, they'd be junk in 5 years. As they are down here, they stand for centuries as mud huts.

[Uno]

dadi OH's fine; we've chatted before. If the adhesion is going to fail with a little moisture, shouldn't I be in the market for a more-appropriate adhesive?

[bob haller]

uno as a friend used to say its your back.

your tile install as is will have a bump where the two types of wallboard meet, this joint may cause lekage.

but who cares if you must redo the job in a few years, its your work and cost, so enjoy yourself

[bob haller]

the adhesive can be super great, best ever made but its no stronger than the layer of paper wall board you installed

[RicodJour]

I think we're talking at cross purposes. I'm saying houses move no matter what. Are you saying they don't? I'm saying that when a wall flexes the most rigid thing, and/or the weakest bond, fails. In this particular case, that's the tile/grout bond.

I'd also like a little clarification about what you're saying about the tile substrate. A properly done mud job (aka thickset) is far superior in most every way to a tile on drywall job. If a mud job shower absolutely requires a shower pan liner, then I'm of the opinion that it's clear that water can get by the tile and grout. If water can get by a superior tile installation, why wouldn't it get by an inferior installation?

Putting this another way - if someone is starting from scratch, do you advise them to use drywall for a tiled shower installation? Or do you suggest a backerboard of one flavor or another?

R

[RicodJour]

We're going in circles. You want an answer that you want. Fine. Your house, your money. You asked for advice, and you've gotten some. The tile sticking is not the problem - water getting past the tile is the problem.

Yeah, I got it - you're in the desert so things dry out quickly. How quickly do they dry out when they're covered by impermeable materials? Mold spores are everywhere. They're on the wood and drywall when you install it. Termites, which do indeed live in hot, arid climates, do eat wood and prefer wet wood.

There are _lots_ of reasons that you should be totally anal about in a shower installation no matter where you live. But you've started winging it, and want advice on how to keep flying. I'm worried about your landing - you don't seem to be. Your house, your money. I've already told you about waterproofing the whole flipping thing so you wouldn't have to worry about the water, and you wouldn't have to worry about the adhesive.

If you're not worried about it, why are you asking for advice? Are you advice shopping like Limbaugh shops doctors for Vicodin?

R

[RicodJour]

So...you live by yourself and you only rinse yourself off once every few weeks instead of taking a shower every day? Then no problem - don't worry about the water. ;)

I'm fresh out of advice for you. Try the John Bridge tile forums and see what the pros over there have to say about your plan.

R

[Uno]

Thx for the link. I'll use them if I have another question.

[Uno]

What do you with a tub surround that only goes up 70 inches? Do you use durock all the way? If there is 0.00 chance of drywall with no tile moldin, mushing or losing it's strength as a building component, why would one be pessimistic about drywall that has protection, that is the tiling?

[Uno]

I'm still gleaning details, and fresh voices have different perspectives.

[RicodJour]

Are you asking why problems that are concealed can develop into bigger problems than the things that are discovered right away?

R

[RicodJour]

All houses move. If it's wood framed it's always expanding and contracting with changes in humidity. All materials expand and contract with differences in temperature.

Changes in plane require caulking to allow for that movement. The joint in the corner should not be filled with grout first, and it should not be filled with caulk either. You want the bead dimensions to insure that the caulk is more likely to stretch in the direction you need it to stretch. When a joint is just filled solid with caulk, and the bead dimensions are not controlled, the caulk is just as likely to stretch in the wrong direction and one side of the caulked joint pulls loose.

Here's some more information on caulking:

R

[gpsman]

Of course not.

I'd recommend one of the rock boards.

But Uno came here looking for advice on alternate adhesives for a tile job because he can't conveniently get real mastic.

I doubt he's got anything other than a ration of shit for using (treated) drywall.

The substrate of shower walls is not the cause of leaks, or structure movement, or settling, or a preventative measure against same.

-----

- gpsman

[Uno]

Cool, cool, rico.

I'm more worried about the wind than I am the water.

[Uno]

So, gps, let me see if I understand your position, because I suspect there is nuance that I haven't found yet.

Assumption 1) You understand that there is no way that I'm gonna rip out my drywall, because NO ONE rips out my drywall, and I make my own decisions as a journeyman carpenter with 2 decades of experience in many regions.

If somebody wants to come in and borrow the pain in my hands when I work with durock, I'm waiting for that stuntman.

Meanwhile, I'll be using sheetrock as my substrate when I think I can get away with it and not screw myself as a person who offers lifetime maintenance on things I design, sometimes. I usually do it with people I want to see again. If a tile falls off or cracks, I'll get a phone call. We joke about "job security," but for me, it is a joke; I'm mortified when I make mistakes.

Let me ask you a simple question: have I screwed myself by using treated drywall in a surround 1/2 shower with no door, and with the first foot of it being durocked, and with the transitions covered with tape and thinset on the bottom and with exposed tape over joint compound in the detail portions up higher?

[gpsman]

I suspected as much.

I hear ya.

Not yet.

You've got rock in the most critical area. A good tile/grout/caulk/ paint job ought to hold you there for 20 years, anyway.

The next weakest area, IMO, would be the drywall above the tile, due to splashing and/or condensation. I think it's important to use a good paint down to 6-12" below the tile line first, then tile over the paint.

You probably won't live to see any warranty issues...

Good luck! -----

- gpsman