Seedsaving...Correcting brooklyn1/sheldon

[Charlie]

To all those who are new to gardening, lurking, or don't realize, one doesn't need to purchase new seed every season, unless you are partial to hybridized seedstock.....contrary to what brooklyn1, the poster formerly known as sheldon, has stated in:

Message-ID:

Only those who haven't done any real gardening would >even consider picking old seed to save for next year's crop, unless they're >still in their lima bean with wet blotter mode,

Now, while the poster doesn't mention anything about hybrid seeds or heirloom seeds, he gets a bit of wiggle room here if he meant to specify hybrid crops. One needs to be very careful about reading and believing everything they see here.

Heirloom, or open-pollinated, crops are true to type and reproduce true to type, thus allowing one to save seed from year to year. If one saves seed from a hybrid crop, the next generation will produce something entirely different than it's parent.

Suzanne Ashworth's "Seed to Seed" is the seedsaver's bible, regarding seed saving techniques, crosspollination, cultivar habits and requirements, etc.

Google seed saving techniques for in depth and overviews. Google heirloom and open-pollinates and read about the historical importance of maintaining old varieties and read about the incredible flavor advantages of heirlooms.

Think about joining Seedsavers.org and helping preserve the old time lines of crops and help maintain the quickly diminishing biodiversity in the plant world. Consider satrting your own personal seedbank to preserve local and personal favorites.

Regarding flowers, Victoria can attest, I'm sure, to the fragrance differences between old varieties and modern hybrids.....rather the lack of fragrance that many of the hybrids possess.

Charlie

[Charlie]

I feel the same, but for those who are new, or want to learn something new, aren't we beholden to correct ignorance and false information when we encounter it, re: sheldon, re: things garden re:monsanto worshippers (credit to phorbin)...different perspectives are what we offer.

Charlie

[Bill]

Booklet from Johnny's $2.00 plus shipping

Bill

[Gary Woods]

Interestingly enough, that one was crossposted, and didn't make to it rec.gardens.edible, where I saw the rebuttal but not the original. I don't seem to have missed much, but I am wondering just what's wrong with the wet blotter (actually, wet paper towel) mode. How else would you know if your 10-year-old tomato seed is still good? (It is).

I haven't gardened either. For the past sixty years, give or take.

Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

[kate]

If we can inform in a gracious way, I'm all for it. Going into attack mode seems to usually cause people to become defensive, which is not a good state of mind in which to learn.

JMO.

Kate

[Billy]

Obviously, I agree with Charlie 100% and recommend Seedsavers.org and the book Seed to Seed

isn't as easy as falling off a log however, if you wonder why we would want to keep Monsanto and their ilk from having a monopoly over the food you eat, you should also read the sites below.

also has a handy guide for saving seeds. there seems to be much wisdom in Michael Pollans book, "Omnivore's Dilemma". Factory farmed food seems to be bad for people. There are other culture that eat more meat than American's yet have none of our health problems. The answer seems to lie in what wild animals eat as opposed to what they are given to eat in Concentrated Animal Feeding Operations (CAFOs). Anecdotally, after many years of avoiding eggs and having high cholesterol, I started eating eggs from "real free range" chickens. My cholesterol has never been lower than it is now. I make no claims. I'm only telling you what I see.

Save this post, read it at your leisure, enjoy your garden and your table.

[Steve Peek]

Just a couple of points to make for seed savers:

If you are growing heirloom corn, your planting times must be at least 2 weeks apart to avoid cross pollination and polluting your genetic material. If you are growing corn in a commercial corn growing area, it's about a 99% chance that you seed will contain GM material.

You cannot save seed from squashes (they will cross) unless you beat the other pollinators and net the fruit.

Beans will cross pollinate as well, so plan to have only 1 variety blooming at a time.

Good post Charlie, I usually agree with about everything you post. I just thought this should be added.

[Charlie]

Exactly.

I pulled some 10 year old heirloom 'mater seeds out of the freezer two weeks ago, planted three seeds in each pot, ten pots of the old seeds, and had 100% germination. Now comes the hard part...the killing!

Also have white current tomatoes starting their third generation. Wonder how they will be this year. The second generation differed slightly from the first, in that they were slightly larger and less yellow cast to them. Just as sweet, though.

[Charlie]

Yer killin' me, bro! My log has gone missing....remember?

Good links.

Sometime this spring, I plan on doing a Pollan type thing in that I plan on eating, for a week, only what I grow or wild harvest. Cattail time is near as well as mushroom, fishing, etc....

Came up with a copy of Stalking the Wild Asparagus this winter.

Pollan seems to have nailed it. One might make the same assumptions about butter and dairy, let alone meat, from grass-fed cows.

It seems to be a lot about the omegas, but even more importantly, I feel, is the whole food/real food issue...also meaning that said food is grown in/on healthy soil, not dirt with NPK added.

Polyface Farms, covered by Michael, is a prime example of this...

[Charlie]

Very good points, Steve, and I'm glad you did. Oftimes I am too brief about what I post and rely upon people to research for themselves...preachin' to the choir, so to speak. Thanks for the pointer, intended or not. ;-)

As far as the corn, I have been reluctant to start on that path yet. I have about five/six pounds of different heirlooms in cold storage. We sit smack dab in the middle of Corn Central, danger zone for sure.

I guess I am saving my seed for some type of collapse scenario, with the first year going to propagate seed for the following year. At first I thought you could just plant a small amount and save seed. As it turns out, it takes quite a few plants, (recessiveness/regressiveness?? I forget without looking) and I am short on space too.

Finding open-pollinate, GM free corn seed is becoming more difficult and more expensive.

I'm telling ya', sometimes it's hard to force oneself to only plant one variety of plant per year. Been meaning to save cuke seed for five years, but every year I wind up planting several varieties....grrrrr.

Don't fade too far back, Steve.

Charlie

[Gary Woods]

Unless you hand pollinate. They showed us how at the Seed Saver's convention.

And beans don't cross all that easily. Again, refer to the Holy Writ by Ms. Ashworth.

Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

[Billy]

Pollan said that first we recognized the importance of protein, fats, and carbohydrates in the diet. Then we found that was to simple and added vitamins and minerals. Pollan suspects that flavonoids need to be added as well. Not to mention eating more leaves and things that eat leaves.

[Billy]

Come on in Kate, we can always use the help. You don't believe in the killing of the planet do you? Great. Maybe you could respond for Charlie and me when the same bone headed question is asked ad nauseam. At times I feel that I shouldn't look at the group without a muzzle and a camisole.

[kate]

I don't have answers people would listen to for killing weeds etc. Hand pull, harvest when possible, be as respectful as possible. Bermuda grass and I have a long going game - I get exercise pulling, Bermuda grass thrives. Everyone gets a place to thrive.

I probably do agree with many of your principles but your delivery is off putting to me.

I see the same type of anger in the animal rescue community - it just doesn't seem effective to me. I understand it, but I personally don't believe that anger and ridicule get anyone to change their long held beliefs - leading them gently is the path I take. Sometimes sit works. :)

Kate - 4 zinnia seeds in the earth in the rain - yes!

[brooklyn1]

wrote

Oh, you do animal rescue, me too... I have six rescue cats, all were abandoned as new borns... all were mere hours old when I got them.

- it just

Welcome to the gang mentality. I grew up in the midst of the worst, I know all about those who band together when they feel threatened because individually they are impotent, and they'll never feel secure because none have minds of their own nor do their minds contain much of value. Kate, you can't alter that type of behaviour, they're not receptive, it's best to ignore their bullying tactics, bullys are cowards. The very best they can do is drag you down to their level, if you permit them.

Kate, where do you live that you can plant seeds outdoors, it's still much too early here in NY. I have two big seed packets, one double flower giant California zennias and another hummingbird and butterfly mix.. both NK brand, a neighbor gave them to me. Now more importantly than when I have to figure out where to plant them.

[Billy]

In article , [e-mail] wrote:

Actually, it's a mnemonic device. The reasoning being that a memorable event might trigger avoidance behavior in the future, and have the poster actually think before asking. I know. I'm a real Pollyanna but one can hope. The flippant answer would be that it sometimes takes a 2" X 4" to get their attention. But, honestly, the planet IS going to hell in a hand basket because consumers pay to poison the planet. There are huge dead zones in the sewer that used to be the oceans. 90% of the fish in the sea are history. Farmed fish and animals from Confined Animal Feeding Operations, ethical considerations aside, seem to be making people sick. The water is full of chemicals from industrial waste, to agricultural run-off, to birth control hormones. You got wackos who drive there dune buggies through the most fragile environment in the world because it's fuun or dump their used motor oil in a hole or down a ravine and think nothing of the consequences. Until harming the environment is seen to be as stupid as smoking there won't be much of a chance for the planet. I know in a civilized world you would be right, and if I said,"you know that there are consequences to your behavior, Sir", and a constructive conversation may be engaged. But it seems as if we live in a post civilized world where everyone is just interested in their own wants. Fall-out from the Ayn Rand mob, who thinks that the greatest good will be attained if everyone is selfish.

Think you could help me with the sleeves on my camisole?

[kate]

On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:23:36 GMT, "brooklyn1"

Tennessee. I'm gradually pulling up the winter rye in rows and planting seeds as I go.

Kate

[brooklyn1]

Okay, a longer growing season. Why are you pulling up the rye, have you considered tilling it in?

[kate]

I used to till it in. Then evolved to double digging. Last year I pulled up rows and left the paths in rye, which dies off in the summer. The rye stays in the garden, in one form or another.

[Steve Peek]

I grew some Hickory King corn last year that I had stored in the freezer (I use pint canning jars & lids) for at least 10 years. The germination rate was just under 80%. I don't get a much better rate on seed bought for the current year. Steve