Seedsaving...Correcting brooklyn1/sheldon

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To all those who are new to gardening, lurking, or don't realize, one doesn't need to purchase new seed every season, unless you are partial to hybridized seedstock.....contrary to what brooklyn1, the poster formerly known as sheldon, has stated in:

Now, while the poster doesn't mention anything about hybrid seeds or heirloom seeds, he gets a bit of wiggle room here if he meant to specify hybrid crops. One needs to be very careful about reading and believing everything they see here.
Heirloom, or open-pollinated, crops are true to type and reproduce true to type, thus allowing one to save seed from year to year. If one saves seed from a hybrid crop, the next generation will produce something entirely different than it's parent.
Suzanne Ashworth's "Seed to Seed" is the seedsaver's bible, regarding seed saving techniques, crosspollination, cultivar habits and requirements, etc.
Google seed saving techniques for in depth and overviews. Google heirloom and open-pollinates and read about the historical importance of maintaining old varieties and read about the incredible flavor advantages of heirlooms.
Think about joining Seedsavers.org and helping preserve the old time lines of crops and help maintain the quickly diminishing biodiversity in the plant world. Consider satrting your own personal seedbank to preserve local and personal favorites.
Regarding flowers, Victoria can attest, I'm sure, to the fragrance differences between old varieties and modern hybrids.....rather the lack of fragrance that many of the hybrids possess.
Charlie
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wrote:

I feel the same, but for those who are new, or want to learn something new, aren't we beholden to correct ignorance and false information when we encounter it, re: sheldon, re: things garden re:monsanto worshippers (credit to phorbin)...different perspectives are what we offer.
Charlie
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On Mon, 13 Apr 2009 13:34:50 -0500, Charlie wrote:

If we can inform in a gracious way, I'm all for it. Going into attack mode seems to usually cause people to become defensive, which is not a good state of mind in which to learn.
JMO.
Kate
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wrote:

Come on in Kate, we can always use the help. You don't believe in the killing of the planet do you? Great. Maybe you could respond for Charlie and me when the same bone headed question is asked ad nauseam. At times I feel that I shouldn't look at the group without a muzzle and a camisole.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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wrote:

I don't have answers people would listen to for killing weeds etc. Hand pull, harvest when possible, be as respectful as possible. Bermuda grass and I have a long going game - I get exercise pulling, Bermuda grass thrives. Everyone gets a place to thrive.
I probably do agree with many of your principles but your delivery is off putting to me.
I see the same type of anger in the animal rescue community - it just doesn't seem effective to me. I understand it, but I personally don't believe that anger and ridicule get anyone to change their long held beliefs - leading them gently is the path I take. Sometimes sit works. :)
Kate - 4 zinnia seeds in the earth in the rain - yes!
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Oh, you do animal rescue, me too... I have six rescue cats, all were abandoned as new borns... all were mere hours old when I got them.
- it just

Welcome to the gang mentality. I grew up in the midst of the worst, I know all about those who band together when they feel threatened because individually they are impotent, and they'll never feel secure because none have minds of their own nor do their minds contain much of value. Kate, you can't alter that type of behaviour, they're not receptive, it's best to ignore their bullying tactics, bullys are cowards. The very best they can do is drag you down to their level, if you permit them.

Kate, where do you live that you can plant seeds outdoors, it's still much too early here in NY. I have two big seed packets, one double flower giant California zennias and another hummingbird and butterfly mix.. both NK brand, a neighbor gave them to me. Now more importantly than when I have to figure out where to plant them.
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 00:23:36 GMT, "brooklyn1"

Tennessee. I'm gradually pulling up the winter rye in rows and planting seeds as I go.
Kate
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considered tilling it in?
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On Tue, 14 Apr 2009 13:41:44 GMT, "brooklyn1"

I used to till it in. Then evolved to double digging. Last year I pulled up rows and left the paths in rye, which dies off in the summer. The rye stays in the garden, in one form or another.

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wrote:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1999-04-01/Lasagna-Garde ning.aspx for NO - dig.
--

- Billy
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wrote:

Thanks. I've read about that before - the rye would be like the cardboard, I guess. The only digging I've done this year is planting 10 probably dead trees from Arbor Day. (I know I could scrape the bark off and check, but where's the mystery in that?)
I'll probably use red clover as weed control this year for the tomatoes and peppers. I tried it one year but sowed the seed too late. The clover never bloomed and I harvest the blooms for teas and such.
Kate
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wrote:

You would add your amendments, manure, bone meal, ashes, what ever, and then cover with newsprint (or cardboard), add mulch (I prefer alfalfa), wait a couple of weeks, and then plant through the layers. The organic material attracts the worms as well as reduces evaporation from the soil. The worms create corridors in the soil to aerate the soil and allow for drainage and the bacteria exchange nutrients with the crops roots. Feed the microbes, and the microbes will feed your plants. You might want to cast an eye at "Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web" Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis (Amazon.com product link shortened) /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid06815176&sr=1-1 The printer had a screw up with the first edition, in relation to acid - base (this was fixed in subsequent editions). It should be available from your library (I try to audition books before I buy them).
--

- Billy
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wrote:

I like the library as well. I'll have to wait until next year though. Planting time is now and I figure the compost is teeming with all kinds of life.
Have you dabbled with biodynamics at all? Secrets of the Soil is a good read.
Kate
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wrote:

Na, it's too strange for me. I'm not saying it's wrong but I haven't seen anything to encourage it's use. Bio-intensive, sustainability, OK but "Biodynamic agriculture, a method of organic farming that has its basis in a spiritual world-view (anthroposophy, first propounded by Rudolf Steiner), treats farms as unified and individual organisms,[1] emphasizing balancing the holistic development and interrelationship of the soil, plants, animals as a closed, self-nourishing system. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture is beyond what I can conceive. Perhaps, that is my fault. I don't understand homeopathy either. I'm not the type to take something on faith. I don't have to understand but there needs to be some empirical support.
--

- Billy
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wrote:

Wow - I love that description! I studied and gardened biodynamics for a year or 2 - I didn't realize how much of it had stuck to me.
"emphasizing balancing the holistic development and interrelationship of the soil, plants, animals as a closed, self-nourishing system."
I'm not sure what is meant by the word "closed" but otherwise that's what I strive for on the piece of the planet I share.
Now if the weather would just warm up a tad I would enjoy being out there more. :)
Kate - 46 degrees at the moment in TN
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wrote:

Don't creep me out, Kate. You've folled the group long enough to know that I'm not adverse to organic gardening. It was the part before that, that says."Biodynamics . . .has its basis in a spiritual world-view (anthroposophy, first propounded by Rudolf Steiner)", that I find weird.
Since you garden "biodynamically", I presume that you prepare your garden in the followung manner.
"Field preparations, for stimulating humus formation: ? 500: (horn-manure) a humus mixture prepared by filling the horn of a cow with cow manure and burying it in the ground (40-60 cm below the surface) in the autumn. It is left to decompose during the winter and recovered for use the following spring. ? 501: Crushed powdered quartz prepared by stuffing it into a horn of a cow and buried into the ground in spring and taken out in autumn. It can be mixed with 500 but usually prepared on its own (mixture of 1 tablespoon of quartz powder to 250 liters of water) The mixture is sprayed under very low pressure over the crop during the wet season to prevent fungal diseases. It should be sprayed on an overcast day or early in the morning to prevent burning of the leaves. Both 500 and 501 are used on fields by stirring about one teaspoon of the contents of a horn in 40-60 liters of water for an hour and whirling it in different directions every second minute."
and prepare your compost by:
"Compost preparations, used for preparing compost, employ herbs which are frequently used in medicinal remedies: ? 502: Yarrow blossoms (Achillea millefolium) are stuffed into urinary bladders from Red Deer (Cervus elaphus), placed in the sun during summer, buried in earth during winter and retrieved in the spring. ? 503: Chamomile blossoms (Matricaria recutita) are stuffed into small intestines from cattle buried in humus-rich earth in the autumn and retrieved in the spring. ? 504: Stinging nettle (Urtica dioica) plants in full bloom are stuffed together underground surrounded on all sides by peat for a year. ? 505: Oak bark (Quercus robur) is chopped in small pieces, placed inside the skull of a domesticated animal, surrounded by peat and buried in earth in a place where lots of rain water runs past. ? 506: Dandelion flowers (Taraxacum officinale) is stuffed into the peritoneum of cattle and buried in earth during winter and retrieved in the spring. ? 507: Valerian flowers (Valeriana officinalis) are extracted into water. ? 508: Horsetail (Equisetum) One to three grams (a teaspoon) of each preparation is added to a dung heap by digging 50 cm deep holes with a distance of 2 meters from each other, except for the 507 preparation, which is stirred into 5 liters of water and sprayed over the entire compost surface. All preparations are thus used in homeopathic quantities. Each compost preparation is designed to guide a particular decomposition process in the composting mass." -----
How does this work out for you?
--

- Billy
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wrote:

Not what I meant to say. I did the following for a couple of years, quite a few years ago. I bought the preparations - no horns of cows for me. I also don't know what anthroposophy means. (A quick google shows me that I really don't care what it means and don't claim to follow it. What I was responding to favorably was the statement
"emphasizing balancing the holistic development and interrelationship of the soil, plants, animals as a closed, self-nourishing system." Minus the word "closed."

I enjoyed it a lot. It helped me "bond" as it were to the piece of earth I share. It apparently helped me to care for everyone, not just the species I was aware of. There's something very nice about treating all parts of the "yard" with equal respect.
Kate - clear as mud?
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wrote:

I've got a cow horn that was buried for a few years stuffed with manure in a large jar in my basement circa 1975. Just in case the german mystics were half right. They sure were great with Weleda Blackthorn syrup. Heaven on good ice cream. Which I can't find anymore . I've got four images mounted in this room from from these folks. Plants with auras and roots with auras suggesting more than we see usually. Priceless.
Kind of far out.
Bill a student of homeopathy especially useful for teething tots and Arnica for the Bruises. <http://www.saffronrouge.com/weleda?gclid=CPiPg-7X85kCFQVaFQod8SAnQg&kwdWeleda
--
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wrote:

I give my dog homeopathic arthritis pills. Years ago I made a couple of flower essences. I chose to be a student of western herbalism because I wanted to be able to grow or collect local herbs.
I have to mow today because the neighbors will get restless if I don't, but I harvested plantain for a dogs sore paw first. I love Spring and nature.
Kate
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wrote:

Plantain a weed that we use to draw out infection. Flower essences ... exist in one of my flower paintings and our medicine cabinet.
Waterbearer 6:28 Sally Oldfield Mirrors
Bill
Found me out an aging hippy.
--
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