Peach tree

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On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:06:27 -0400, "symplastless"
You didn't ask me for photos of my dissection of my peach tree. You asked for photos of the tree.
One time you said people don't know how to prune correctly and I sent you photos of donuts forming around cuts I'd made on several of my climax Live Oak trees. You never acknowledged that I sent them, even though you said they'd go on your website if they were done correctly.
Boring. I'm now boring myself.
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symplastless wrote:

No, but maybe he can get you an MRI.
Sherwin
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 10:11:24 -0400, "symplastless"

Peaches can be touchy - no question, but any basic extension service will provide enough information for most *home* gardeners.
Here is one from the Midwest -
http://ohioline.osu.edu/hyg-fact/1000/1406.html
There are plenty more out there from unis or state or county services in more northern or southern climates. Easy to find.
Really, this isn't rocket science at the home gardener level.
Me? I just started two dwarf Elbertas in huge tubs this year in northern NJ. They will overwinter in the unheated garage come December.
Best case, I get some peaches nest year. Worst case, I have some lovely flowering trees in the spring.
I have more problems with groundhogs going after my blueberries and breaking off branches as they reach up.
Boron
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wrote:

Wrong way to tell people to prune a tree without even explaining how a branch is attached.
Go here: http://www.shigoandtrees.com WORLD WIDE PRUNING GUIDE for home owners. LUCID!!!!!! MODERN ARBORICULTURE for peaches.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:38:44 -0400, "symplastless"

Well, no it isn't. The average home gardener really does not need the level of knowledge that you feel is minimum. There is no reason to offer any more info than is needed. Those interested in further info can find it or seek it out. Those who want a very specific pieces of it can thus find it easily and not wade through unwanted and extraneous information.
Although you dearly want to tell people everything you know, most of it is burdensome and unnecessary.

Do you think that home gardeners didn't grow fruit trees before these books came along? The yard of the home I grew up in had a fine, fine peach tree. I assure you, no one felt the need to run out and get your books. An inexperienced gardener asks for or seeks a level of information that is practical, understandable and useful. What you offer is interesting, but truly impractical and useless for the average gardener.
Amazingly, nature seems to allow even unattended fruit trees to produce, some may do so better than others and there are many ways of maintaining and increasing yields if tended, but, really, until you comprehend the audience to whom you preach so haughtily, you'll benefit no one.
How the hell do you earn a living?
Boron
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Wrong. Telling someone to prune a tree is different then explaining how to prune a tree. You claim people who want to help trees all they need to know is to prune. Nonsense. The world wide photo pruning guide is as simple as you get.
Many tree problems are associated with the following: They are Case Sensitive.
Unhealthy Trees from the Nursery / Improper Planting http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/T/tree_planting.html
Improper Mulching - http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/mulch.html
Improper Pruning http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/tree_pruning
Improper Fertilization (See A Touch of Chemistry) http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html
Tree Farming and Related Problems http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND /
Troubles in the Rhizosphere http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html
Sincerely, John A. Keslick, Jr. Consulting Tree Biologist www.treedictionary.com Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology. Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us that we are not the boss. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding.
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Well shit, the yard man is a biologist again.
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wrote:

I just read that website and it is the worst instructions I have ever read in caring for a tree properly. Home owners are sure to create problems with instructions like that~!!!!! Must be willing to read www.shigoandtrees.com you can get their stuff at your library - FREE! Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding.
--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
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On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:44:12 -0400, "symplastless"

Time to put you in the killfile. I don't know what your problem in life is, but you're a nutcase.
So long, sucker.
Boron
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wrote:

Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding.
Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. Some people will buy products they do not understand and not buy books that will give them understanding. DITO
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the trouble is, John, *you* aren't gaining any understanding. one does not 'dissect' a living tree. and a homeowner does NOT in any way, shape or form need to become a "tree biologist" in order to steward the landscaping in his or her yard. while you believe everyone should memorize Dr.Shigo's words, that is a fallacy on your part. by being so insistant that *your* way is the only way to view a tree, you are driving more people away from reputable sources of useful information. not only that, but you bring up tree dissection & Shigo in entirely unrelated posts, like one about tomatoes. lee
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wrote:

Oh yes and so much NITROGEN! At planting time at that! Whatever problems the tree had prior application of fast release nitrogen, the tree still has after application. Maybe I am wrong, what do you see? However, the thing that changes is the tree grew bigger in symplast maintaining parts. With this increase is size from nitrogen, the requirements for the other 16 essential elements increases. Food for defense of larger symplast increases, not to mention the energy required for the increase in girth to take place. The requirement for water increases with size of symplast. I would think it is safe to say that the root exudates for soil associates will also increase. More living cells would be required to store starch. What's the cost of creating extra starch? So you will hopefully see and understand the role nitrogen can play.
Bigger leaves more oxygen. More oxygen out also requires more oxygen in for respiration. So what real benefit, do we know of, that applications of high doses of fast release nitrogen might create? The only thing I know fast release nitrogen feeds is the decay fungi. Some people would say decay pathogen. I kind of favor the predisposition theory. Nonetheless, so much focus on nitrogen, should be spread out for all the 17 known essential elements for trees. When one is lacking it will dictate a problem. The Law Of The Minimum. Something I have on growth increase:
I do not know, I may be all wrong as some claim. Maybe I am a fraud and will never be a arborist, forester, tree biologist or whatever, as some have claimed.
My professor and his chemistry friend used to explain nitrogen applications like this. Take the 10 most spectacular 4th of July Grand Finale's and put them together. This is what happens when you take a pinch of fast release nitrogen and release it on the soil. That is chemistry speaking. I believe them. Do you?
--
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So....I joined this group to be a part of gardening discussions. But it's actually a lecture series by Mr. Keslick, I'm realizing.
Sorry to be off topic, but I have to ask somewhere before I give up and leave the group.
Is this a common complaint? Anyone have advice?
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Yes it's a common complaint. The guy is a total nutcase that passes himself off as an arborist because he cut a tree down once while Dr. Shigo was somewhere in the area. He answers every question on this forum with the same cut and paste crap, although sometimes we get to see a real him go off the deepend as in the past couple of days.
You have two basic choices: 1) killfile him 2) take amusement in his crazy patter
Whatever you do under no circumstances take any of his advice w/o double checking it. He'll have you running around dissecting all your healthy trees.
There's no reason to leave this forum because of this guy. There are some hard core gardeners on here that have probably forgotten more about plants the Keslick ever knew.
ml
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bah, I shouldn't post in the morning. The above should read:
He answers every question on this forum with the same cut and paste crap, although sometimes we get to see him go really go off the deepend as in the past couple of days.
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wrote:

Apparently I'm now Don Staples! He asked me to kindly send him a branch of my tree so he could dissect it and determine how much water it needs. I gave him and others a rather lucid description of the rangeland conditions here in Texas and it's been on record for a hundred or more years how much water is needed for Live Oaks.
Then, the guy blew a cork!
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ups.com:

so you had to quote the whole thing just to complain about it?

yes, it's a common complaint. you can killfile Mr. Keslick, or you can simply ignore his posts. both of these things would be far easier if you get yourself a proper news server (NNTP server) instead of using <gag> google groups as your usenet access. google groupies have little room to complain about others. lee
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Please just ask. There are a lot of gardeners here who know how to garden and have plenty of suggestions. This newsgroup used to be much more fun, then it all started and it never ends.
Ignore and ask away.
Victoria
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wrote:

That won't happen. Brown rot really can't be controlled. I didn't remove a tree anywhere on the property. The variety is 'Dixieland' and I won't be using a spray program under any circumstances. What the tree is planted there is a shallow level of soil which only goes down about 24 inches before it hits caliche. The tree is most likely not receiving the elements provided because of the pH level of the subsoil. I will plant another tree on the property which has at least 4 feet of topsoil and far enough from the infected tree not to be bothered by whatever is causing this stree. Thanks for the information, but I do not use any pesticdes, not even natural ones.
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wrote:
<snipped a bunch to get to the root of the problem> "but I do not use any pesticdes, not even natural ones."
There is your issue. There are many insects, fungi and diseases that attack fruit trees. If you take no measures to deal with them you will have the problems that you are having.
John
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