Fish Fertilizer and saving fish stock

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Nad R wrote:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-04-07-1Acities07_ST_N.htm?csp4news
when times get really bad people will be forced to band together again.
around here most of the townships have lost population the past ten years.

i much prefer no kicking involved when it comes to animals.
i'm just stating that it's more likely we'll have an increase of certain kinds of diseases as more people get involved in raising animals.
as it currently stands i'm not a big fan of factory farming, but the acreage involved in free range chicken farming for huge flocks would consume many acres of land and there's a good chance it would damage the environment on those many acres too. in the end my answer is to eat less meat all around. as an omnivore there are other sources i can be happy with and they cost less than meat most of the time.
looks like free range pig farming is already happening in Michigan with the wild pigs. so there at least is an ethical source of pig, but so far they've not shown their curly tails here...

and the right to arm bears.
songbird
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Makes more sense than Paul Ryan's plan to steal more from the poor to give to the rich.

If you like weekends (8 hr./day & 40 hr./week), then thank a labor union. They paid for it in blood. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair>
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I do not believe in that for a minute. When times get bad, people start aiming at each other for the scraps. At least in the US.
Michigan is the only state have a reduction in population. However, land prices with out a home on it is still going up in price. If the land has a home on it the price goes down. Land is still being used as an investment.

Ok, I will only beat them after they have a quick end to help tenderize them.

Free ranging animals will cost more therefore will eat less of the critters. I would support a human animals right bill that would reduce the crowding.

I just hope the bears shoot straight :)
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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And increased transportation cost$ to go to the markets, stores, and other business offices that are found in towns and cities. Do you get all your culture from the small screen?

Nad, I don't think you have a firm grasp on the concept of animal husbandry ;O)

There's that Chinese curse again.

Breading humans? Is that anything like schnitzel?

Sorry, both are being axed by Paul Ryan’s neo-liberal, bone-headed budget cuts :(
<http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the_end_of_progressive_government /2011/04/01/AFQbjTXC_story.html?nav=emailpage>
The end of progressive government? By E.J. Dionne Jr., Sunday, April , 7:53 PM So far, our nation’s budget debate has been a desultory affair focused on whether a small slice of the federal government’s outlays should be cut by $33 billion or $61 billion, or whatever.
But Americans are about to learn how much is at stake in our larger budget fight, how radical the new conservatives in Washington are, and the extent to which some politicians would transfer even more resources from the have-nots and have-a-littles to the have-a-lots.
And you wonder: Will President Obama welcome the responsibility of engaging the country in this big argument, or will he shrink from it? Will his political advisers remain robotically obsessed with poll results about the 2012 election, or will they embrace Obama’s historic obligation — and opportunity — to win the most important struggle over the role of government since the New Deal?
This week, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) will announce the House Republicans’ budget plan, which is expected to include cuts in many programs for the neediest Americans.
The Ryan budget’s central purpose will not be deficit reduction but the gradual dismantling of key parts of government. Remember that Ryan wants both to preserve the Bush tax cuts and, over the long run, to enact more breaks for the wealthy, including the elimination of the capital gains tax.
Ryan’s plan reportedly will include steep Medicaid cuts, disguised as a proposal to turn the program into a “block grant” to the states. The net effect would be to leave even more Americans to the mercies of the private insurance market.
In deference to the GOP’s success in turning last year’s health-care law into “Obamacare,” let’s call this proposal Ryancare — and let’s make sure we look carefully at its impact on the elderly and the disabled, the main beneficiaries of Medicaid.
Put the two parts of the Ryan design together — tax cuts for the rich, program cuts for the poor — and its radically redistributionist purposes become clear. Timid Democrats would never dare embark on class warfare on this scale the other way around. (cont.) -
If you like weekends (8 hr./day & 40 hr./week), then thank a labor union. They paid for it in blood. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair>
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Not at all, now that I am retired my cost for fuel has been dramatically reduced. I no longer drive a hundred miles round trip each day. I use more gas in my lawn mower than my truck now. I only go shopping twice a month. Gas can go to ten bucks a gallon for all I care now. I may start riding my bike ten miles one way to the nearest market or get horse.

That is a good one :)
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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wrote:

And government spending was 10% of now.
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And Europe and Asia was rebuilding their nations and buying lots of US made goods during the post war years. I see the world and within the US as a zero sum game. Others misery is a blessing to others. However, the planets resources is past the breaking point so I see greater misery for many.
Now I will double and triple check my sources of vitamins. Fish and fish oils vitamins from the North Atlantic will be my first choice. Many vitamin manufactures are from Japan.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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I make it 2%: '56-$76.0B/'10-$3,591.1B
Obama's rescue plan is likely to cost at least $700 billion - and that would push Uncle Sam's bailouts near $8 trillion. January 6, 2009 <http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/economy/where_stimulus_fits_in/inde x.htm>
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The Economic Consequences of Mr. Bush
The next president will have to deal with yet another crippling legacy
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Except for Iodine-131 (8.02 days), most of the rest have half lives of 30 years and up.

I don't share your optimism.
All countries are trying to lock up energy sources, for their own benefit, and as a cudgel against others.
Jobs Not Guns.
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wrote:

Neither do I . I'm betting Japan within 50 miles of the reactor will never be rehabitated. As of right now. They have already said some cities are off limits for " tens of years " A big typhoon could wipe the whole island out. With radiation. The problem is ingestion of radioactive particles. . Not radiation levels from the air or background. As the news is telling you. Radiation levels are irrelevant. Ingest the smallest particle and its a guarantee of something bad. it will go somewhere in your body and do damage. The US is completely covered. They are dumping it (water ) in the ocean. And cant stop it. The water solution was a waste of time and foolish. It didn't cool anything. Because its just sitting there. They are talking about the concrete solution which may or may not work. Its more likely to explode. MOX cant never get away from you .You cant ever let it get away. There is no way to stop it. Its under there , melted down. Molten with the concrete. If its not in the earth. The politically correct term "cracks" may mean its melted a hole in it. And you cant do nothing about it. They tried to plug it and its not working.
The only real solution is too put an A bomb in each reactor and blowing it off and hope it vaporizes the fuel. As screwed up as that sounds . It would be the best solution.
The japs are also arrogant and didn't want to lose face so they dragged ass .And used water. So as not to admit defeat. Radiation levels are trillions and trillions of times a safe level.
The fishing industry is hosed. Manufacturing is hosed. farming is hosed, The ocean is hosed. Toyota is hosed. They are in fact. finished.
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NOOOOO!!!!! Each of those reactors have about one hundred tons of spent fuel rods. That is equivalent, I read somewhere, to 400 Hiroshima's radioactive material.
Let's just hope those mega concrete pump trucks the US gave Japan can bury the the things. However I see TEMPCO CEO's as bad as BP CEO's... Reckless and belong in prison.
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Woods Hole Chimes in.
http://www.sciencenewsline.com/nature/2011032910240000.html
................................
Impact of radiation from Japan: Woods Hole expert answers your questions
March 29, 2011 " Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
On March 11, 2011 a magnitude 9.0 earthquake one of the largest ever recorded, occurred 80 miles off the coast of Japan. The earthquake created a series of tsunamis, the largest estimated to be over 30-feet, that swept ashore along the northeast coast of the main island, Honshu. In addition to killing more than 9,000 people, the earthquake and tsunamis badly damaged the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, eventually causing four of the six reactors there to release radiation into the atmosphere and ocean.
What is being released from the Fukushima reactors and how dangerous is it? So far, we know that releases from the Fukushima reactors have been primarily composed of two radioactive substances: iodine-131 and cesium-137. In large doses, both of these isotopes or radionuclides, as they are called, can cause long-term health problems. So far, however, only those working at the plant face the most serious exposure.
More about iodine-131 and cesium-137
Are there different types of radiation? In general, there are two types of radiation, ionizing and non-ionizing. Non-ionizing radiation includes visible light and radio waves things that, as the name implies, do not have the ability to form charged ions in other materials. Ionizing radiation, however, can and as a result presents a serious health threat because it can alter the atomic structure of living tissue. Ionizing radiation also comes in several different types, including alpha, beta, and gamma radiation, all with different degrees of concern and health impacts.
More about types of radiation
How long is the radiation from these substances a risk to humans and the environment? Radioactive materials are, by their very nature, unstable and decline in strength over time. This change is measured in half-lives the length of time it takes for the radiation to decrease by one-half. Every radioactive substance has a different half-life, ranging from fractions of a second to billions of years. Those with longer half-lives are potentially more difficult to deal with because they remain radioactive for longer periods of time. Cesium-137, for example, has a half-life of 30 years and so is a potentially serious health threat for decades or centuries. Iodine-131, on the other hand, has a half-life of just 8 days and so loses much of its potency after just days and effectively disappears after one to two months.
More about half-lives
How far can radiation travel? Ionizing radiation itself cannot travel very far through the air. Typically, dust and other particles, seawater and other liquids, or even gases become radioactive due to exposure to radionuclides and are then transported great distances. In the months and years after the explosion at the Chernobyl nuclear power plant in Ukraine scientists were able to track the spread of radioactive material in the atmosphere and the ocean around the globe. Within a week after the explosions at the Fukushima plant, there were reports of very small increases in the continental U.S.
More about mapping and monitoring radiation from Japan
What is the normal background level of radiation? The normal background level of radiation is different for different places on the planet. Radiation in some places is higher because these receive less of the natural protection offered by Earth s atmosphere or because they are in places where the surrounding rocks contain more radioactive substances, such as radon. In the ocean, the largest source of radiation comes from naturally occurring substances such as potassium-40 and uranium-238, which are found at levels 1,000 to 10,000 times higher than any human sources of radiation (see illustration). The largest human release of radionuclides was the result of atmospheric nuclear weapons tests carried out by the U.S., French and British during the 1950s and 60s. Despite even the high concentration of nuclear fallout in the Pacific caused by U.S. tests on the Marshall Islands, there is no known adverse health effect associated with eating seafood from the Pacific.
More about natural background radiation
If there are warnings in Japan about eating certain products contaminated by radiation, why is it safe to eat the seafood? Except for the vicinity of the reactors, seafood and other products taken from the sea should be safe for human consumption. Radiation levels in seafood should continue to be monitored, of course, but radiation in the ocean will very quickly become diluted and should not be a problem beyond the coast of Japan. The same is true of radiation carried by winds around the globe. However, crops and other vegetation near the reactor site (including grass that cows eat to produce milk) that receive fallout from the atmosphere build up radioactivity can remain contaminated even if washed. When these foods are consumed, a person receives much of this dose internally, often a more severe pathway to receive radiation than by external exposure.
More about radiation and food safety
How does radiation released from the Japanese reactors compare to the accident at Chernobyl? We still don t know exactly how much radiation was released at Fukushima or how much will ultimately be released before the reactors are fully contained. The Chernobyl accident was much more violent and resulted in a complete breach of the reactor vessel. The event also started a very hot graphite fire that released large amounts of radioactive material into the atmosphere equivalent to between 3 and 5 percent of the total reactor inventory. Winds carried the radioactive fallout first to the north and eventually into the Black Sea to the south. Radiation in the Black Sea and Baltic Sea, though elevated, remained well below EPA guidelines for radiation in drinking water.
More about the after-effects of Chernobyl
How will the radioactive material released in Japan affect humans? It s still too early to tell, but unless we learn that the type or amount of material released is larger than reported or changes dramatically it will likely have significant long-term impacts only within a few miles or tens of miles from the plant. This is because the further the radioactive material travels, the more dispersed (and the less harmful) it becomes. The effects of Chernobyl were felt well beyond Ukraine in part because the amount of radioactive material released was large and because it also included substances such as plutonium that have very long half-lives. That being said, people who live near the plants would be wise to follow the minimum safe distance restrictions and other precautions recommended by the Japanese government and at-risk individuals should take suggested extra precautions such as taking potassium iodide to avoid thyroid problems.
More about radiation in the environment
Is there any danger to people in other parts of the world? Prevailing winds over from Japan blow east towards North America; ocean currents in the region also flow generally east into the North Pacific, though much slower than winds. However, radioactive materials carried by winds or currents will be quickly diluted until the radiation falls below background levels. Unless radioactivity from Fukushima finds its way directly to another part of the world through food or other commercial products, it should become sufficiently dispersed over time that it will not prove to be a serious health threat elsewhere. Over time, the radioactivity associated with the Fukushima plant should continue to decline even further. In particular, radiation from iodine-131 will decay very quickly, but even the effects of the much longer-lived cesium-137 will decline in strength. Today, people who eat seafood from the Black Sea, which received a considerable amount of fallout from Chernobyl (see map), consume a dose of cesium-137 that is 100 times below the one provided by a naturally occurring radionuclide, polonium-210, that is not considered harmful to animals or humans.
More about the environmental health effects of radiation
Why is this event of interest to oceanographers? Oceanographers use substances called tracers to study the path and rate of ocean currents and of processes such as mixing that are important parts of the global ocean and climate systems. There are many different radionuclides that scientists use as "clocks" to measure how fast the ocean mixes and sediment accumulates on the seafloor. Some of these substances are natural, but many are the result of human activity, such as the Chernobyl accident or nuclear weapons testing, and now releases at Fukushima.
More about radioactive tracers in the ocean
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Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
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Thanks again, Bill.
"The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow." - Anon
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- Billy
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In article

Just wish the worlds media would address issues like this.
These days we have to identify the question and try to find a source that could address possible further study. Whew!
Here is a rainy day search engine............
<http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
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Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
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Bill who putters wrote:

The top experts on oceanography.

One topic still to be learned is how much of what got onto the land. In the long run that will be worse than what is being leached into the ocean.

I figure some of those workers will die, likely many of them. Heroes of the most amazing sort who have a lot of time to reflect on the outcome who go in anyways.

This is why it's so important to have potasium iodide on hand if you live near reactors. But wait until the prices drops again. It's cheap when the demand is low.

That's 25 years later in a body of water much smaller than the Pacific. It's why I suggested there won't be much impact on fishing.
I was careful to not make an advance judgment about radiation release on the land. We know it will be orders of magnitude lower than Chernobyl. It will still be a mess to anyone not measuring it against Chernobyl.
The land effects remain unknown, not as bad as Chernobyl, and large. If I'm eating beef that might come from Japan I want to know where it was pastured.
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