Where to spend? windows versus boiler


Want to reduce heating bills, mid terrace Victorian house new CH system 20-25 yrs ago (Ideal Elan boiler), original sash windows some with very good plastic anti-draught parting beads, some windows a bit rotten and tatty.
Suggestions please - is it better to target replacement boiler or window replacement.
Many thanks!
Lol
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Lol wrote:

Draughts are possibly the greatest source of heat loss. If you don't have draughts then double glazing is not enormously effective so the payback will be many years. If your boiler is in good condition it will possibly be 60-70% efficient. You can look up the effciency of your proposed boiler and look at your gas consumption and work out the saving per year. Installing a new boiler with all the knock on needs such as thermostatic rad valves and re-plumbing your DHW won't be cheap unless you DIY. Don't forget you need building control approval (presumably with a fee to pay?) for both jobs.
Bob
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Building control approval?? -thats new, I thought these bods in suits were supposed to be encouraging us to be energy efficient, not make it harder. Duuno that I can face the aggro.
Many thanks for the heads up ... but why would a new boiler need new valves - have already got thermostatic in all rooms that might need them??
Lol
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Lol wrote:

control application to make sure you are using approved levels of thermal efficiency. eg thermal break frame, K glass, double or triple glazing to get performance, trickle ventilation, adequate light and opening area, escape in case of fire etc etc Look up Part N
Boiler changes are also notifiable not only to make sure the boiler meets efficiency requirements but also that the rest of the controls also are efficient. Usually this results in thermostatic valves throughout. Like most parts of building regs, they say what parameters much be achieved rather than how to achieve them. You have to show on your application how what you propose meets the rules. Look up part L
hth
Bob
I've not been through this myself and am largely repeating what I have read - somewhat dangerous so do check for yourself to be sure.
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On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:46:20 GMT, a certain chimpanzee, "Lol"

We are (although I don't wear a tie, much less a suit). Which is why it's controlled work. The boiler has to be to a minimum efficiency, it has to have controls to make it work efficiently, and the windows have to have a maximum heat loss.
If the windows are replaced by a company registered with the Glass & Glazing Federation's FENSA scheme, they can self-certify their installation. If the boiler is replaced by a GasSafe fitter (which it should anyway), then it's similarly self-certified[1].
The only time Building Control would become involved is if a replacement window was being installed by someone other than a FENSA registered installer. The paperwork involves filling in a one page form (or electronically, if your local authority has dragged itself out of the dark ages), sending in a fee between 50-100, and waiting two days.
Top tip: On your application, put down that you intend to replace ALL your windows. The fee is usually the same no matter how many windows you replace, and once you've started the work, the application is valid for ever. If you ever need a completion certificate for the windows you've already replaced, just phone up Building Control and say you no longer want to replace any more windows, and they will sign-off what you have already done & issue a certificate for it (provided that they've inspected them and they were satisfactory).
[1] This is because all GasSafe central heating installers know and abide by all the requirements to make sure that only boilers of a minimum efficiency are installed, that it is commissioned to its peak efficiency, and that any sub-standard controls are improved[2].
[2] Yeah? And pigs can fly!
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Hugo Nebula
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"Bob Minchin" wrote:

Regarding paying for building control approval, I have had a conventional boiler replaced by a condensing and all windows and doors replaced with upvc double glazed units during the last 3 years and there were no fees to pay to the district council. The firms notified the council on completion regarding gas safety and FENSA and issued me with the necessary certificates.
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"Lol" wrote:

Virtually impossible to answer this, I think you would need a professional assessment/survey to get an accurate answer. My gut feeling is to leave the boiler alone if it is working well. The windows will be expensive to replace as the sash boxes are extra work to remove, even more so if you want upvc sash replacements, and double glazing takes years to recoup the cost anyway. But a domestic energy assessor may say that your boiler should come first. Cheapest options are usually a thick hot water cylinder jacket, adequate loft insulation (10 inches), draught proofing and cavity wall insulation.
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lol
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Lol wrote:

Personally I think it's a no brainer.
You have a working boiler. Don't replace it unless it's beyond economic repair. You could replace it with a new more efficient boiler, but it would take the life of the new boiler to pay for itself and the installation fee in fuel savings, by which time it will need replacing again as they don't last as long now, negating any cost benefit. Also, bearing in mind that you have removed and replaced a good working boiler which is taking up space in a landfill most likely. Would you take a good working engine out of a car and pay to replace it with one which did another few miles to the gallon? I doubt it.
The windows are not going to get any better and you are really only putting off the inevitable, so go for it and get them changed.
Eventually they'll both need replacing, but it's not time to change the boiler yet.
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breaking down in the winter, and this one is now quite old. We used to have a CH engineer service it every year - well, he took the casing off, hoovered and cleaned industriously etc charged us 50 - until a valve or sommat failed, called him out, he charged 50 callout fee, pronounced it beyond repair - "how much to replace then" "I don't do jobs that big, boilers are too heavy" Found someone else who fixed it for 60 (after BG had quoted 1,400 to replace). Thats the only time in 20+ years it has failed, but I know if it does it again it will be in midwinter, and I am not confident of getting it repaired easily. Windows - that's woodwork, I can do that! Lol
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Lol wrote:

It may not break down, so don't worry about it unless it does.

Sounds like he couldn't be arsed to fix it more like.

BG are a rip off. Get a quote off them but nothing more.

Spares are all over ebay for all kinds of boilers of all ages. I got a PCB for mine for 30 when it was 160 retail. Be aware of the <sharp intake of breath> heating engineers that declare you can't get spares for <insert boiler model> any more. Often, they are looking to screw the customer for the install of a new boiler and the income that it brings.

There you go!
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