mortar alternatives - Mason Bond

What are the pros and cons of using a product like this for large-scale 8x8x16 CMU construction? Specifically, would it indeed reduce or eliminate the need for steel reinforcement?
Here's the low down:
ITW TACC site: http://www.itwtacc.com/masonry.html Masonry Magazine article: http://www.masonrymagazine.com/1-05/altmortar.html
Looks promising but it's relatively new so I'm somewhat skeptical.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Boy, that stuff is pricey. I would think the industry will have several problems with it with regards to block construction in that it doesnt leave a very attractive wall surface. For bonding decorative stone and block it would be feasible but most masons we use are simply bonding cap stones and such with construction adhesive which is a hell of a lot cheaper than 22.00 a tube. On their site you dont even get case quantity discounts. 22.00 across the board.
Depending on the construction details of your project you may look into surface bonded dry stack construction instead. Surface bonded block results in a wall with far more lateral strength though it has slightly less compressive strength so it requires cores to be grouted at given intervals. It offers the same features as this product in that there is less skilled labor required and speed is increased. They both suffer from masons squauking about all your measures being thrown off as you are eliminating the mortar joints.
Given that using the above product would more than likely require the wall to be parged for appearance sake, I would go surface bonded any day of the week over this stuff.
Mark
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In a previous post snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote...

In a word, NO!
The steel provides ductility, which is required in seismic zones.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
dude....give it a rest, you would be farther ahead using this energy looking for a way to do this by talking to the building dept and or an engineer. Besides even if you do find some alternative method it still has to be approved by the City or County which means you are going to have to hire an engineer to review the specs and how they would apply to your project... these are steps that are unavoidable regardless of the material and or method you use. Do you really want to build a project with something that has not been proven over hundreds of years like block, mortar, steel and concrete? With your project and the height of the walls there are NO ways around you needing STEEL in the blocks and NO way around needing the cells to be grouted with concrete.... Im not trying to be a jerk but you have to go to these people first then you can spend the energy finding materials that will work with what you need or can use. There are plenty of cool cutting edge building products out there but if the city or county has not used them before they are not going to take the liabilty of approviing something built with them..
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Italian Mason wrote:

Will do, but as far as giving it a rest I'm pretty sure my post was on topic and useful to other people reading it.

I'm aware of that, and to answer your question, potentially yes. That's how technology moves forward and gains acceptance, by people adopting it.

Do you know anyone I could talk to or is there another forum for engineers? Thought a few may peruse this group. Also, do you know of any good books, web sites, etc., that cover the basics of reinforced concrete construction, wood frame construction, or the legal logistics of building a home? If so you could be spared countless future posts.

I'm well aware of that too, but thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In a previous post snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote...

I'm hanging around this newsgroup. If you recall I previously posted that you will most likely need reinforcing steel to make you CMU walls meet the building code.
As for building a home look for a copy of "Housebuilding Illustrated" by R.J. DeCristoforo, published by Popular Science.
Also go to the Pathnet.org website for lots of information and publications:
http://pathnet.org/sp.asp?id 27
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Bob Morrison wrote:

I do. The manufacturers of Mason Bond floated the idea (perhaps a little foolishly), that steel reinforcement in some cases could be eliminated due to the excessive strength of their bond. I wanted put the statement to the test of those in the know. Looks like they were stretching the truth (unless of course the primary issue isn't structural integrity but building code acceptance).

Thanks for the info, you are the man.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
In a previous post snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote...

The main issue is one of ductility. A bonded wall has none. A steel reinforced wall has plenty. If we are only talking about non-bearing interior walls in a non-seismic area, then the bonded product might be acceptable. However, mortar is pretty cheap, so Id be surprised if a bonded wall could be cost competitive.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Go with the tried and true method. Beware of new building products. I have seen them come and go. Brick block and cement and steel work very well together.
Bob Morrison wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
This post is pretty much dead but I wanted to add the folowing;
That's

I realize that and I also appreciate techno advances. My comments are directed specifically at your exspressed desire to build a CMU building of the size and description you had given before. Now, using standard of the shelf block, I currently have no knowledge of other new tec. to build a structure as you have stated using standard block.
Also, do you know of

The basics of reinforced concrete construction are an engineerd plan, concrete, steel and forms lots and lots of forms.... this also would not apply to your structure unless you were to do tilt up walls. This also is not a first timer or DIY project. As far as wood frame construction there are hundreds of books out there. Legal logistics Im pretty sure for the most part are going to be coverd by your county or city they will dictate the where and how of most of the house and lot plan and placement.
>If so you could be spared countless future posts
Hey, this is a place for us all to learn and offer advice dont let me deter you from posting as much as you would like and if its masonry related I will be glad to comment.........all Im saying is your efforts would produce much more fruit going to the right peolpe first.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
replying to Italian Mason, DEDE wrote: We are building an outdoor fireplace with firebrick. The outside "window dressing" to hide the fire brick "guts" is going to be decorative stone "think unilock or belgard". We need to a strong adhesive on a decorative part of the "birds mouth" opening in the front. We are creating an arched i beam type birds mouth and above that there will be angel iron. The arched area opening are pieces of colored concrete for lack of a better term to describe unilock/belgard product that are 4 inches wide by 3 inches deep by 6 inches tall that need to be glued together to make this curved i beam decorative front. This product has been out for 10 years. Thoughts? Will it keep together? Does it expand and contract with the elements? We are in Michigan
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.