Geothermal

I placed a Waterfurnace Geo. system in my house - in June 2008. It was 2 systems - a 2 ton unit and a 4 ton unit. (3600+ sq ft. house) - the A/C cost went down from approx. $400 month to $100 month and the heating bill has been around $150/month. The previous propane costs were around $5500 per year. I researched for approx. 3 years and never could find straight numbers on the savings. The A/C is awesome and the heat is almost too hot - recommend getting a humidifier w/ the system. I paid approx. $28k for both sys. installed. So, essentially i will pay less then $1000 to heat AND cool my house. A big difference from the 5-6k i spent last year.
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On Jan 23, 10:23 pm, snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote:

Sorry - i thought i was replying to another post.....
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snipped-for-privacy@comcast.net wrote:

I don't understand why not. I installed a WaterFurnace system in early 90's -- the WaterFurnace sizing calculations and estimates of heat and cooling loads were almost identical to the actual performance as well as the data from the Oklahoma State geothermal research group and TVA were quite accurate as to energy efficiencies and comparative inputs relative to conventional systems. That was almost 20 years ago--can't imagine they're not at least as good now.
BTW, I'm not the least surprised by your experience...
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Yea, and you paid about 20k more than the two conventional systems cost. They will last maybe 10 years if you are lucky. Servicing them will be far more expensive. So tell me again what you saved.

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jamesgangnc wrote:

... I can't judge what his installed cost would have been for a conventional system.
I will say my experience has been the system has been in place approaching 20 years so far and is still working w/ no major maintenance costs to date.
It's been long enough I can't even recall what the trenching costs were but I'm quite certain it has recouped its additional costs as compared to conventional (gas wasn't available at the location at the time which was a major decision factor, of course).
I won't say they're the solution for everybody but I will say they're well worth consideration.
--
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It is very difficult to find experienced people to install and maintain these systems. The basic idea is a good one but until the volume of installations has increased there are risk factors. Certainly some people have had excellent results but there are horror stories as well. If you have some technical savy then you would be in a better position to have one. But imho they are not prime time for the average harry homeowner.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: ...

Water Furnace vets their distributors/installers. Can't imagine there's any reasonably-sized area any longer that doesn't have experienced installers. But, granted, I'd not want to be the first client for an independent one-man shop kinda' guy w/o the factory/distributor rep's on board.
Ours was the first ground loop system the fella' that did ours had done -- but he had done 50 or more lake-loop systems so the trenching was all that was new. Water Furnace sent rep out to scope out the site, sizing calc's and verify backfill requirements, etc., for the loop. This, again, was nearly 20 years ago--finding the experience now shouldn't be particularly difficult.
Don't know there are any more "horror stories" w/ geothermal than conventional installations--surely there are any number of hacks installing HVAC systems w/ almost any disaster desired findable.
They've been around for 20+ years now commercially; that's pretty long.
For retrofit the extra cost for the loop/well if there isn't available service water can make them expensive; sure, but for new construction where there's dirt work anyway the extra costs can be limited by judicious scheduling, etc.
And, the rest of the economics depends on the area, the availability and pricing of alternative fuel, etc.
Again, they're not magic but well worth considering in the mix...
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There are none within 5 miles of me while there are several thousand gas/split ac systems. See my point?

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ASHRAE estimated life for geo is 24.4 years. Only maintenance needed is usually changing the air filter. Postive cash flow on added cost vs. conventional HVAC systems which makes it easy to be green. Federal tax credit of up to $2,000 for the homeowner Why do I need a dealer within 5 miles? Check the dealer locator and op cost calculator at www.waterfurnace.com
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Not the point of the 5 mile statement. It goes to the almost non-existent volume of them as compared to regular units. There for finding qualified guys that have any experience is a pain and expensive. I prefer to let someone else pay the extra cost for being first. When there are more of them around installed then I'll consider it.
wrote:

ASHRAE estimated life for geo is 24.4 years. Only maintenance needed is usually changing the air filter. Postive cash flow on added cost vs. conventional HVAC systems which makes it easy to be green. Federal tax credit of up to $2,000 for the homeowner Why do I need a dealer within 5 miles? Check the dealer locator and op cost calculator at www.waterfurnace.com
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wrote:

ASHRAE estimated life for geo is 24.4 years. Only maintenance needed is usually changing the air filter. Postive cash flow on added cost vs. conventional HVAC systems which makes it easy to be green. Federal tax credit of up to $2,000 for the homeowner Why do I need a dealer within 5 miles? Check the dealer locator and op cost calculator at www.waterfurnace.com
I have had Waterfurnace units, 2t & 4t, for the past 15 years. Cost to install was about $12,000 with power co bonus of $1,000 per ton. Heating/cooling 3,700 Sq Ft. Heating cost averages $60 per month while cooling averages around $45. Only failures have been fan motor on 4t unit, in warranty, and a thermostat.
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