I couldn't agree more. Verifying document authenticity and checking sources
is of paramount importance. When someone goes public with fake documents we
need to hold them accountable, regardless of whether they're a journalist
or, say, a president from Texas.
So, you would agree that anyone who is in a position of public trust
and acts on inaccurate information presented to him by others should
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:48:38 -0400, Tom Watson wrote:
Whoops, there goes 98% of the House and Senate, not to mention most of
the judiciary! All the police, fire EM chiefs who sent their folks out
based on fraudulent 911 calls will have to go as well. Can we fire former
public officials retroactively?
"If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange apples
then you and I will still each have one apple.
What I really said was that people that distribute false or questionable
information should be fired. Acting on inaccurate information it reasonable
if the person did not know it was inaccurate. There is a difference.
If it is snowing and Dan Rather says the schools are closed so your mother
keeps you home that day. Who gets fired? Your mother acted on inaccurate
information so do you fire her? No, it is Rather (and maybe his sources)
that should go.
In either case, Washington would be a ghost town. I think that tops, two
senators and maybe three or four in the House would survive. Nah, on second
though, get rid of them all.
Right, crapola. I think democracy is best served by a discussion of
the serious issues facing the country, and by honestly evaluating the
policies and performance of the incumbent and challenger. The media
focus on the sleazy aspects of this campaign, and on the manufactured
scandals, is a huge distraction from the issues.
Dan Rather is not on the ballot.
So? What does sleazy reporting have to do with politics. His ass should be
gone. The NYT dumped Jason Blair, Boston Globe dumped Mike Barnacle, CBS
should dump Dan Rather.
He is preventing, not encouraging, the proper free discussion of the
I doubt Rather is interfering much with free discussion, but his mistake was
monumental and is an indicator that he's past the point where he needs to
retire. IIRC, he's well past 70, anyway, and it's not like he's going into the
But he has lost ALL credibility, whether justified or not. The point there
being that they did not vet those documents closely enough to absolutely know
whether or not they were forgeries. There is still some doubt that they're
real, and that means Rather (and his direct boss) did not do their jobs.
They should both be gone.
Of course, I think his direct boss is president of the network news.
"America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy. She is the
well-wisher to freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and
vindicator only of her own." John Quincy Adams
Again, who cares? It's certainly not the most serious issue facing
voters. It's just another cheap distraction. Haven't we had about
enough of those? When does Bush have to start talking about issues
and his record?
It is serious to me. If I cannot trust the news sources I cannot make a
proper decision. It is not a distraction to the candidates, it is a serious
issue involving what is one of the most used sources of information in the
USA. If they lied about this, what else are they lying about?
Would you feel the same way if they showed falsified information about your
Politics aside, it is a very serious issue that affects all of us. It is
more than just the minor distraction you make it out to be. Distance
yourself from who the information was about and look at is as a consumer of
news and tell me you can trust Dan Rather 100% for everything in the future.
As well as all the news media that is tainted when this sort of thing
happens. . Why have some major newspaper editorial boards called for his
resignation? Because it is a serious ethics violation.
I think they have been for some months now. Check out some of the
I agree with you, the lack of focus on the issues and the lack of
truthfulness in this campaign is a very serious issue. Lack of
journalistic accuracy is also a big problem (but personally I still
think Rather has more credibility in that regard than many others do
I think Rather screwed up. He apologized. I also think the country
has wasted enough time rehashing Vietnam, for God's sake. I'm ready
to stop seeing Rathergate, Swift Boat, Kitty Kelly, etc etc on the
news. I'm ready to see the news media accurately reporting on what
the candidates are saying and doing. Real policy issues for a change.
These links are about the poiticians. I know they lie. It is the alleged
factual reporting by the news media that concerns me. When they don't take
normal precautions to check fatcs, that is a serious issue.
That was my point. Politicains like. News media, especially the big names,
are held to a much higher standard. The public trust was violated.
So did Blair and Barnacle, but they lost their jobs. Why is Rather so
On 29 Sep 2004 21:47:22 -0700, n email@example.com (Nate Perkins)
That would hurt his plea if and when a treason charge is filed.
Rather sure stepped on his lizard this time, didn't he?
Nor are gays, abortion, or religion, but all of them are being
talked about FAR, FAR too much. None has anything to do with
politics or running this country.
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You are absolutely correct that Kerry has been talking about issues for
months. Actually, much longer. In Fact, he has talked about and taken so
many positions on the issues that no one can remember what his position is.
He has taken so many positions in Iraq that every time ho speaks on the
subject, he contradicts a previous position.
Rathergate crapola? A news organization tries to unseat a sitting president
by using fraudulent documents and that is not newsworthy?
Well, that is certainly the perception that the Republicans have spent
more than $100 million in advertising to cultivate. You can't watch
any Republican on TV for more than 3 minutes without them saying "flip
flop" at least 3 times. In reality, Kerry *has* done some flipping --
but on the other hand, Bush's guys have greatly exaggerated Kerry's
positions and inconsistencies. And in truth, Bush has done a fair
amount of flipping on his own (e.g., see Dan Froomkin, Wash Post, Sept
29 2004; or W. Saletan, Slate, Sept 28 2004 at
The common trick the Republicans are using is to attack the opponent
personally as a flip-flopper, as unsupportive of the war, as dishonest
on a service record, etc etc. If Kerry points out the failings of our
policy, then he's being unpatriotic or even subversive. Create fear
by telling the voters that Osama will nuke them if they vote for
By using tactics like this, the President doesn't actually have to
talk issues. Because if the discussion comes down to an actual
evaluation of Bush's job performance, then Bush is in some trouble.
Yes, crapola. Yet another distraction from the bigger issues. I mean
is this really the biggest issue facing the country? Or even one of
the top 10?
I don't care which side you are on but this has to be sleaze politics
recently some have inferred that the draft will be reinstated and that we
are under increased threat of getting nuked by the ragheads . this is to
scare the pants off the younger generation .
On the other hand there are others threatening that if certain parties are
elected the their social security is in danger,scaring the crap out of the
If it wasn't so serious it would be funny,I suppose the funniest part is the
politicians don't think the public see through it...mjh
If not, it sure should be.
Please note that I've not mentioned politics here, just the press and a
Our country is founded on strong principles. One being Freedom Of The
Press. To make this freedom work, there must be integrity and integrity
must be worked at and reputation earned. Dan Rather is a member of the
press in this country. He is the managing editor for this station's news
organization and with that, goes a lot of responsibility. Standards have
been set and adhered to in order to maintain the integrity of the news
organizations in this country. That means checking sources and
corroboration of facts. This was not done. I don't know or care if it was
intentional. I do know the result and the CBS eye has been blackened.
We cannot be assured of good reporting of the top ten issues facing our
country if this shoddy work is tolerated. Rather should go. He is tainting
the rest of the press as long as he remains. To say otherwise if
compromising your own principles, just as he did, for the advancement of
your personal agenda.
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