OT Humor: Great legal cases

[kenR]

Hot coffee is supposed to be hot. That's why they call it hot coffee. The optimal temperature for storing HOT coffee is 175-180 degrees. McDonnalds was serving coffee well within that temperature range. The claim that other places do not serve their coffee properly is of no concern.

If we are going to follow your sill logic, then we should force all restaurants to pre-chew our food for us. After all everyone knows that people can choke on large pieces of food, and pre-chewing would prevent this. how dare those nasty stores not pre-chew everything and risk subjecting us to serious injury

Stupidity should hurt. When I hold something hot in my hand, I know what can happen, and behave responsibly. While this concept may be to complicated for some, I really don't feel the need to suffer for their ignorance.

This is a woodworking newsgroup. The makers of tools know of the dangers of such tools. A small percentage of users manage to hurt themselves on these devices. Just how much extra safety stuff should they be required to add onto their tools just to prevent a few Darwin candidates from showing their lack of smarts. Already, you can't buy a table saw in the EU that will accept a dadao blade.

Why should they be expected to pay out anything. She spilled the coffee on herself. If they wanted to be really polite, They might want to offer a refill, but expecting someone else to pay for a persons own stupidity is just plain pathetic.

[John Mc]

Actually, I grew up the city of South Houston, (somewhat South of the city of Houston,) and Galveston was (and is) about 45 miles south of there. ;>

John

[Jonathan]

McDonald's was serving coffee between 185 and 190 degrees, they require all their restaurants to do so. It's above normal, and it is of concern if they decide to serve their coffee hotter than anyone else. If everyone else brews their coffee at, say, 155, then most people would assume that it's the way McD's serves it. If you spill coffee from another restaurant on yourself, you won't need skin grafts.

There's a big difference between expecting the absurd extremes you're describing and brewing coffee at a more normal temp, in line with what most other restaurants do.

Do you know what third degree burns even are? Haven't you ever spilled something? It's just a mistake, it's not stupid. It's a mistake that happens all the time. It happens all the time.

If a company knows of a reasonably cost-effective way to make their product safe that doesn't ruin the function it's supposed to serve, then they should do that.

I'm not an anti-corporation person, and I think gov't over-regulation of private business is a bad thing... But when you have a clear case where a company knows there's a danger, has a history of people being injured by this danger, has a cost effective and reasonable way to avoid causing injuries,and makes a calculated decision not to do something about it, they should be punished for that.

That's all I've got to say, I'll let someone else have the last word if they want. I gotta go find my scraper and burnisher and smooth up some mahogany...

Happy Thanksgiving, Jonathan

[Trent©]

You too, Jonathan.

This might save others a lot of posting time...

one knows for sure how much she actually finally got.

Wishing you and yours a happy Thanksgiving season...

Trent

[Barry Lennox]

Excellent, I'll have even more reason to boycott them. Cold coffee should put them out of business, for others can manage to get it right. You are right, SERVE COLD COFFEE, please do.

[Doug Miller]

Right answer...

.. wrong reason.

Correct reason: there would never have been a serious injury, and thus no lawsuit, because Ma & Pa's Coffee and Donut Shop doesn't serve coffee at a HUNDRED AND NINETY degrees.

FWIW, when this story first came out, I stuck a thermometer into a pot of coffee freshly brewed by my Black & Decker [OBWW] automatic-drip coffee maker: one-sixty-one. And that's plenty hot as far as I'm concerned, hot enough that I won't drink it right away. One-ninety is *waaaaay* too hot to be serving coffee without a warning.

-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?

[Neal]

I was in the restaurant business for 29 years and learned that the correct temperature for brewing quality coffee is around 200°- 205° and the holding temperature should be 185°. The quality of the coffee declines at lower temperatures. This is for quality coffee and I don't think McDonald's serves very good coffee and they don't need the high temperatures. Safety sometimes has to come before quality.

Neal

[Garey]

Waiting for someone to sue Hustler magazine because they got tennis elbow

[Ron Bean]

What temperature did you *serve* it at?

Given the amount of gadgetry McDonalds uses, you would think they could come up with a machine that would hold the coffee at one temperature and then serve it at a lower temperature. For a given temperature and flow rate, you could design a heat exchanger to remove the appropriate amount of heat. It wouldn't be that hard to do.

One of the articles said McDonalds claimed people were buying coffee to drink later at home or at the office, while their own research showed that people wanted to drink it in the car on the way there. It makes them sound like they don't know what they're talking about.

Most fast food places serve *everything* too hot to eat...

[Lawrence Wasserman]

How hot do you think it would have been if you used a percolator?

[Ehvee8or]

I don't think that's a valid assumption.

At what temperature do you have to start issuing warnings? Maybe it's just me, but I learned a long time ago that coffee is hot, and if I spill it on myself, it is going to hurt. If I were stupid enough to put a cup of hot liquid between my legs in a moving vehicle, I would accept the consequences of that decision.

[Neal]

We served coffee at 185°. This is what Bunn coffee machines are set for from the factory. The majority of restaurants use Bunn coffee machines. What about tea? The water should be brought to a boil before the tea bag is inserted. McDonalds is in a no win situation. They have to decide between quality or safety. The type of cliental at McDonald's makes me think that safey should win out.

Neal

[CW]

I have the answer. When a cup of coffee is sold, it should come with a store employee to drink it for you. Since the employee must be returned to the store, most may wish their coffee to be consumed there instead of having to come back for the return. End result: drive up to McDonalds drive thru and pay a McDonalds employee to drink a cup of coffee for you.

[Bill McNutt]

You guys might want to check out

if you're interested in this kind of thing.

Bill

[Norman D. Crow]

How long can we keep this no win debate going?

Early 60's, worked as tech in large computer room w/floating floor, so all entrances had been ramped up from original floor. Rear corner of comp. rm. was a hot/cold fountain with instant coffee, hot choc., etc.. One of the programmers was a polio victim in a wheelchair. When he would come in for a cup of coffee, the ONLY way he had to carry it was between his legs. Every so often the door(self-closing) would bump the back of his wheelchair on the way out, and the resulting "GREAT BALLS OF FIRE" would resound throughout the department. Nahmie

[Trent©]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:23:43 -0500, "G.E.R.R.Y."

[George E. Cawthon]

Your premise is wrong. There was no ONLY way. Did someone say he had had to transport it in the original full open container? I doubt that. Did someone say that only he could transport it and not someone else transport it for him? I doubt that. Now a lawyer might be able to convince a jury that the ONLY way was.... but it wouldn't be true. Do you assume that he was too stupid to realize that he spilled it once, that he should do things differently? If he was that stupid he shouldn't have been programing. The truth was, he made a decision to continue carrying his hot beverage in a way that it would spill. He could have put it in a larger container so it wouldn't spill on him or a dozen different things. Get the drift? It was his decision process that resulted in the spills.

[Mark]

I went through my period of being a coffee snob and that's what I learnt, run 200 degree water over the grounds.

Never worried much about holding temperature as even the bad coffee I now drink isn't around very long.

[Larry Jaques]

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:23:43 -0500, "G.E.R.R.Y."

[Mark]

Something everyone here seems to have missed (unless I missed your not missing it) is she put the cup between her legs and TOOK THE LID OFF!

How frigging stupid can someone be as to remove the top of a styrofoam cup and expect it to be held between their legs? It's awful damned optimistic to think the cup wouldn't crush * with * the lid.