On 9/2/2011 4:29 PM, DGDevin wrote:
If scientists haven't
The problem is when they look back over time, and what they find doesn't
jive with what they need to say to either get government money, sell
windmills, keep their job at a communist university or meet their
anti-capitalist agenda, then they LIE. This is not so much common sense
as simple, proven fact.
Yeah, at least you got the question right.
Got Change: Global Warming ======> Global Fraud!
In just a few minutes of looking I found the NOAA paleoclimatology web site.
The web site has data going back 150,000 years. That is considerably more
than 200 years.
They present both their data and some conclusions.
Their home page:
Can you demonstrate any calibration to any measurement past 100 years ago,
a vital component in quantitative scientific research? Can you cite any
experiments that demonstrate a cause and effect relationship (that rules
out all correlation studies) between human activity and average global
Some of these things are relatively easy, I believe, such as measuring
gases in bubbles in ancient ice, isotopic compositions, and others. The
science of measuring heat fluxes onto and off the earth apparently is
trickier, and the experts (socalled and real) don't agree on who is doing
things right. That leaves lay people to use their best judgment.
As someone said elsewhere in this thread in other verbiage, whether or not
you're a greenie doesn't matter. Fossil fuels are rather finite, and it my
behoove us to work on alternative energy sources.
The US can go at least 600 years with fuel from only its borders. The more we
use, the more is found. This hasn't changed for the past 100 years. What has
changed is that what we're finding is more expensive to use, but it's there.
Artificially increasing its price further and bankrupting the country makes
*no* sense. The *only* reason we can have a clean environment (and yes,
Virginia, it is getting cleaner) is that our economy can *afford* it. Once
that changes, Sadie, bar the door!
Sorry, nonsense. With all due respect for both Leon and Rob, all
available data indicates that manmade greenhouse gases contribute to the
warming of the earth, globally and averaged, over sites and time (i.e. 3-
dimensional averaging and drawing a line that is an average of several
years, following that with time. The fatc that global warming has
happened since the last iceage is correct and irrelevant. The
superimposition of the manmade components has added an order or two of
magnitude to the rate of increasing temperature. We can fight and
discuss all we want, the proof of the hotsoup will be there in another
35, 50 or 100 years. But then my teeth won't hurt me no more, and it
will be a problem for the Chinese or the Arabs (no discriminatory intent,
just a semi-educated guess at who will be in power by then, the US having
selfdestructed much, much faster than the Romans).
I appreciate where you're coming from, Han, but it is the relative
amount of influence of contributing gasses that is being distorted.
Fact: If *I* pass gas in Sarnia, there WILL be a time when you'll be
able to measure the effects in NYC. Fact. Indisputable. You'll be
dealing with atoms/cu.mile, but still...
Just because we have learned to move the decimal point, endlessly, on
our test gear, doesn't mean the threat becomes larger just because our
magnifying glass becomes stronger.
Of course our emissions are contributing to the overall picture, but
is Serge's Lada melting Greenland?
Environmentalists are those who travel through sewers in glass-
bottomed boats. (Not mine)
Rob and Karl:
I can see where you come from. But with all due respect, the cumulative
effects of Serge's Lada and the cows in Holland farting plus everything
elsemight just be bad, real bad. And 1 Mount Pinotubo's burb can't put
enough SO2 into the stratosphere to counteract all that. Not that I am
longing for a Krakatao ...
That cleaning up would work both ways, I think, incoming and radiating out.
But I do winder whether the 9/11 clearing of the upper atmosphere where
jets fly had any effect. Someone ought to have been able to measure it,
because it ws mostly clear all over the US and the disappearance of
contrails quite remarkable.
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