New Shop

[basilisk]

Work begins today on my new shop, slab is being formed as I type. 75 tons of #57 was delivered earlier in the week for the base pad. If the weather cooperates I should have a shiny new slab at the end of the day.

It will be a combination woodworking/mechanic/metal shop with the meatal working portion sequestered on one end, 36'X72'.

My requirements were for something relatively inexpensive, low maintenance and somewhat fire proof- slab on grade, cinderblock walls, steel trusses on 12' centers and galvalume roof, fits the bill.

Once the blocks are laid all the work will be mine from that point forward.

I'm building out of pocket and the work will have to stop for a couple of months after blocks are laid, mostly due to the fact that the college my eldest daughter goes to suddenly decided that they would no longer accept tuition payments by the quarter, only in full and upfront, a large expense I was not expecting.

Pictures when there is something to see.

basilisk

[Dave]

On Thu, 2 Aug 2012 07:52:23 -0500, basilisk

Dimensions of this shop? And if you're up to it, perhaps some costs of putting it up along the way? Thanks.

[dpb]

Quoting OP...

I would presume that's overall. Didn't mention height, however...

[basilisk]

36 ft X 72 ft

Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, give or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down, for instance, gravel delivered at cost(friend in trucking business), poly to go under slab was acquired from a rail reloading yard, enough for

5 layers of fiberglass reinforced poly, concrete at $30 under market/ yard (friend in concrete business), concrete block factory that will sell direct and only 20 miles away, already been given enough 4/0 entrance cable for run from nearest power box (150ft)etc, etc.

Even with all this I could have put up a Quoset type building for somewhat less, but damn those things are ugly.

basilisk

[dpb]

...

Inquiring minds and all that... :)

What's eave height going to be?

I've ached for a enclosable-enough machine shed/shop area since returned to farm -- the old barn is a little bigger footprint but too short to get anything bigger than pickup into and alleyway designed for wagon means even the 3/4T is hard to get out of when in...

The old machine shed was fine for the 30's-40's but it's only 24x40 and only 10-ft height. I can get the big truck (barely) and the manlift in but it's 3/4 full after doing so and it's just a homebuilt pole barn.

It is surely cold in winter and hot in summer to try to have to work on equipment... :(

I had thought to put the woodworking shop in the barn loft but it'll take putting together a lift of old forklift mast or some such and it's still not heatable or even feasible to consider closing it up tight enough to try...

But, at this age it's hard to bring self to spend the amount req'd when not that long a horizon ahead any longer...could have built a Morton or similar for the amount put into the old barn restoration but just couldn't stand the thought of it going away--it's the last old wood barn left in the county that I'm aware of that isn't nearly completely gone at best...

--

[John Grossbohlin]

The one thing that keeps me from doing something like this, or an oversize garage/shop is that the additional taxes (which are based on the market assessment vs. the cost) and utilities would be unpleasant.

For example, a friend of mine built a house by himself with about half out of pocket. Including the land he had about $150K in it. The tax assessors decided it was worth $450K based on comps... The guy was working for the town at the time and his wife was not employed. Getting hit with $16K tax bills on a $45K salary about killed him... he had to change jobs and eliminate about everything but food from his life. They are virtual prisoners in their home between the taxes, mortgage and utilities... his truck is aging and the RE market is down. Another friend increased the size of his mud room by about 20 sq feet while replacing the rotted out one and got totally creamed on his reassessment. His case is a good example of why people don't get building permits!

While I figured out that I could put up a building myself, with similar help from my friends, for around $15-18K it looks like the assessment would be more like $50-60K at a minimum. That would add at least $2K, and likely much more, to the tax bill each year forever... The last time the area was reassessed they increased one of my properties by 285%. Yes, two hundred and eighty five percent! With the help of a realtor friend of mine who pulled comps for me I successfully documented and fought it. At the same time I personally knew others who had similar things happen who flat out lost their appeals because they tried to argue it was "too high" without anything to back it. Adding additions or new structures to my property opens me up to a reassessment that could be very difficult to fight... Adding in maintenance and the additional utilities to make it usable year round makes keeping my shop within my existing footprint very attractive... and forces me to keep in clean!

John

[basilisk]

Block walls will be 9' 3", however, the trusses I'm going to use will be higher in the middle and won't be quite so confining. Enough height in the middle to drive the backhoe through.

Heating isn't a problem in AL, cooling is though, I expect to have some big ass fans in the end walls.

I would have been better financialy prepared in a couple more years but I am old enough to appreciate "if not now when"?

basilisk

[basilisk]

Great guns! I don't recall what the assessed value of my property is but in real dollars of worth to dollars paid in taxes it works out to $2.50 taxes to 1000k in prperty value. Property in AL is usually under assessed not over assessed.

The last time the area was

Property taxes are low here, and as the county I'm in has no permitting structure it may be years before the shop even adds anything to them. They will add it at the next physical assessment.

Power company doesn't care what you do as long as you pay your bill and don't do something idiotic to shut their system. I had the foresight to put a 400 amp service in my house and everything feeds from there.(albeit at the expense of running heavy cable underground all over the place)

basilisk

basilisk

[SonomaProducts.com]

On Thursday, August 2, 2012 8:08:10 AM UTC-7, John Grossbohlin wrote:

plwqb1scz$. [e-mail]... > On Thu, 02 Aug 2012 08:58:24 -0400, Dave wro= te: > Cost of bare building including slab and wiring will be around 25k, g= ive > or take a couple. Lots of things conspire to help keep the cost down,= The one thing that keeps me from doing something like this, or an oversize= garage/shop is that the additional taxes (which are based on the market as= sessment vs. the cost) and utilities would be unpleasant. For example, a fr= iend of mine built a house by himself with about half out of pocket. Includ= ing the land he had about $150K in it. The tax assessors decided it was wor= th $450K based on comps... The guy was working for the town at the time and= his wife was not employed. Getting hit with $16K tax bills on a $45K salar= y about killed him... he had to change jobs and eliminate about everything = but food from his life. They are virtual prisoners in their home between th= e taxes, mortgage and utilities... his truck is aging and the RE market is = down. Another friend increased the size of his mud room by about 20 sq feet= while replacing the rotted out one and got totally creamed on his reassess= ment. His case is a good example of why people don't get building permits! = While I figured out that I could put up a building myself, with similar hel= p from my friends, for around $15-18K it looks like the assessment would be= more like $50-60K at a minimum. That would add at least $2K, and likely mu= ch more, to the tax bill each year forever... The last time the area was re= assessed they increased one of my properties by 285%. Yes, two hundred and = eighty five percent! With the help of a realtor friend of mine who pulled c= omps for me I successfully documented and fought it. At the same time I per= sonally knew others who had similar things happen who flat out lost their a= ppeals because they tried to argue it was "too high" without anything to ba= ck it. Adding additions or new structures to my property opens me up to a r= eassessment that could be very difficult to fight... Adding in maintenance = and the additional utilities to make it usable year round makes keeping my = shop within my existing footprint very attractive... and forces me to keep = in clean! John

Hey, they didn't build that on their own. They need to pay back the gov't f= or all the roads and briges and the teachers that help them make it to wher= e they are. It's only faor that the half of the population that is paying t= axes pays more if they have any success from their hard work so those who a= ren't paying taxes can still get all of their freebies.

[John Grossbohlin]

Yup... as long as the part of the population that votes for a living grows at a faster rate than the part of the population that works for a living the problems will continue and will get worse. We clearly haven't learned from the failures in Europe....

[Scott Lurndal]

One of the nice things about Proposition 13 - it limits increases to 2% year over year from the base value (assessed when the home was purchased or had an addition done) (and the 2% is a maximum increase - mine has been adjusted _down_ twice over the last twenty years during economic slumps).

And the tax rate is slightly over $10 per $1000 assessed value when sewerage and various school bonds are summed in (call it 1.1%)

The downside is that municipalities and counties have to rely on state funding and sales taxes for revenue. The upside is retirees can plan for their property taxes well in advance without unpleasant surprises.

scott

[krw]

$2.50 per million? Alabama has the lowest property taxes in the nation but that's ridiculous! ;-)

I assume you mean $2.50 per hundred? Even that sounds high for Alabama. The taxes on my Alabama house are closer to $.50 per hundred ($1500 on $300000). I haven't gotten the assessment for the GA house yet for some reason.

[basilisk]

I meant $2.50 per thousand, with the caveat that part of mine is classed as timber land and is taxed differently(I think)

basilisk

[SonomaProducts.com]

[e-mail]... >Hey, they didn't build that = on their own. They need to pay back the gov't >for all the roads and briges= and the >teachers that help them make it to >where they are. It's only fai= r that the half of the population that is >paying taxes >pays more if they = have any success from their hard work so >those who aren't paying taxes can= still get all of their >freebies. Yup... as long as the part of the popula= tion that votes for a living grows at a faster rate than the part of the po= pulation that works for a living the problems will continue and will get wo= rse. We clearly haven't learned from the failures in Europe....

We can only hope this November returns us to some adult supervision.

[Steve Barker]

you gonna pex up the floor for radiant heat? Well worth it!

[Puckdropper]

Steve Barker wrote in news:KMadnQNBZb4dUYHNnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

I'll second that! I love the infloor heat in the garshop. It's especially nice if you need to open the big door for some reason. The temperature drops some, but recovers quickly.

Do make sure you install air conditioning. A building that size is just too big to be unlivable for 4 months of the year. (If you're in AL, that might be 6.) I don't have AC in the garshop, and haven't been able to do a serious woodworking project in almost 3 months.

Puckdropper

[basilisk]

Wood heat, cheap and readily available when needed, some years we won't have any days when it doesn't warm up to freezing, when working (unless gluing) anything over 45f is fine with me.

Will have gable fans to reduced inside temp to ambient, AC would be nice but that's not going to happen, too expensive to operate in a block building. It's all what you are used to anyway, I was thiry five before I ever lived or worked in air conditioning, and still spend a great deal of time outside at work and home.

Al heat/humidity + lack of any sort of noticable wind speed, can be brutal to the unsuspecting, on the other hand I doubt I would survive a winter in Canada.

basilisk

[krw]

Nah, Alabama isn't nearly that bad. Generally mid-June to mid-September it's in the 90s, with mid-July to Sept-1 the worst. Yes, we're in the middle of the worst. :-( The other nine months, it's beautiful. It's a *lot* better than the four good months (July-October) (maybe) we got in Vermont.

I've moved my tools (except drill press, compressor, and DC) to our house in Georgia - waiting for the heat to break so I can get a shop set up in the

2000+ sq.ft. basement. ;-) It's uninsulated, though (really dumb), so that's the first order of business for this Winter. I won't need heat but I'm already thinking about AC. There are two 150A service panels in the basement, half full, so I should be all set. ;-)

[tiredofspam]

Spray insulation. I did regular insulation in my basement, it doesn't work that well. Some , but could be better in the winter.

Not sure how much of an advantage that is in the south. My ground temp is about 56degrees 2 feet down, year round. So it feels cold in the winter, but comfortable in the summer.

I assume you have a higher ground temp down south.

[krw]

Too expensive.

It's half studded. The only basements here are where the house is built on a hill, so it's a walk-out. I won't bother insulating the concrete. The "frost line" is only 6".

In VT the frost line was officially 4' but it wasn't unusual for it to go 6' and several water mains down 8' burst one Winter. If it's a cold Winter after a wet fall with no snow cover the frost line can really get down there. My basement got *cold*.

Lots. ;-) Like I said, the official frost line is 6" and I doubt it gets down that far for more than a week (last Winter, not much more than the grass tip froze ;).