I think I've set a world's record for screw-ups on one project. Instead
of cutting a stile to the correct width, I cut another part of 3" wide
oak to the stile length. The part I cut was supposed to be several
inches longer. Aaargh!
So I left my shop before making further stupid mistakes and installed
service pack 2 to beat the rush. Today is the last day that the "block
SP2" program will work, according to sources. After 45 minutes, my PC
actually didn't blow up, slow down, lock up, or bitch at me about
anything SO far, except to politely ask me if I wanted Flight Simulator
to access the internet. Looks like I my concerns over SP2 wreaking
complete and utter havoc to my PC were unwarranted. (But hey, there's
always tomorrow, and the apps that I haven't tried since the upgrade. <g> )
I installed SP2 several months ago and one major bit of software no
longer worked: Paint Shop Pro. LOML uses it a LOT for her photo hobby.
Restored a previous system and talked to the Paint Shop folks. It was
another month before the new version of PSP was available.
I'm in the software industry, and as I recall, SP2 mostly reaked havoc on
computers that had spyware programs running on them. If your PC was
relatively clean, you were usually okay with the install.
Gee...you must be "speculating" on what Microsoft's own list of incompatible
applications says, because I checked out the documentation and counted a
grand total of...31. In addition, there were another 30 or so that needed a
port opened manually...easy enough. Yes, technically that "broke" this
second group, but the woodworking equivalent would be to say your saw was
broken because you needed to tighten your arbor nut.
Look, I'm not a Microsoft apologist by any stretch. I think they're a
shitty company run by a worse human being, and they give the entire software
industry a bad name with their horrid QA.
But the fact of the matter is that XP was a security nightmare, and SP2
fixed the vast majority of the problems. You should have it on your
computer if you're running Windows XP. End of story.
The issue I was describing was the problem many users had when their
spyware-infected PCs crashed completely after loading SP2. Many of them
never got their PC's operating again. Was that Microsoft's fault? Nope.
By definition, spyware doesn't belong on a computer. You paid your money,
you took your chances. Microsoft now advises that you rid your computer of
spyware before you install SP2.
Common sense tells you to rid your computer of spyware anyway.
Check your attitude at the keyboard.
And yet it directly counters your claim that "SP2 mostly reaked(sic) havoc
on computers that had spyware programs running on them.". Not only was
that not the problem, but the problem really was with legitimate
applications, however you count them.
Yes. XP is a security nightmare, and SP2 is a compatibility nightmare.
I'm not saying people shouldn't go to SP2 if they've chosen to inflict
windows on themselves, I'm saying that it broke real peoples' real software,
not "infested machines" as you claimed.
Yes. But it broke more than just infested systems. AMD processors,
for instance, in some cases ended up being unbootable after the patch
was put in place. Hardware layer, not app layer or even OS layer.
That's arguable at best. MS's crappy design decisions are what made
their OS (and only their OS) susceptible to spyware, so they're at least
secondarily responsible. Of course, the spyware, spammer, and virus
creaters should be taken out and shot, but making a system wide open
by design is definitely on MS's list of things they've done wrong.
Which is fine.
Which is odd to see from you, given that my message was taking exception
to your claim that it was about breaking infested computers, rather than
breaking legitimate apps on a well-maintained windows box. That's all.
SP2 sucks. XP sucks without SP2. By now, most third-party apps that
were screwed by SP2 have released patches, so if you haven't patched it
by now, it's your own damn fault. But, it _did_ break legitimate apps,
not just spyware.
If you're going to correct my spelling, make sure yours is spot on. (Hint:
It isn't. Let's just start with "creaters." Oh, and "people" is already
plural...the apostrophe goes before the 's.')
And thanks for "fixing" my top-posting. (Another hint: If it ain't broke,
don't fix it.)
And you still don't get what I was trying to say in the first place. SP2
didn't "break" spyware...it broke the computers that were infested with it.
Much of that spyware was loaded on computers willingly by users. They
downloaded and installed programs which they were completely unfamiliar with
(Kazaa comes to mind) and had no idea they were then being spyed upon. So
your contention that the "real" problem was that SP2 broke legitimate
software is...well...it's pretty much your opinion. Those whose computers
wouldn't reboot because they installed some dumbass adware would argue
As for the "real" software it broke (as opposed to virtual software, I
guess), yes there were many applications "broken" as a result. My claim,
which you didn't bother to attempt to disclaim (no doubt realizing the
futility), was that it wasn't in the hundreds, but rather in the dozens. So
as to "...no matter how you count them," I'm using base-ten numeration. Get
on board: 31 is not equal to "hundreds."
I am now tired of this conversation.
But more so of you.
Obviously you aren't aware of the rule that any speeling flame must contain
at least one error.
Well, if you're not trying to communicate effectively, then sure, answering
without coherent context is fine I suppose.
And it broke computers (as defined by, their users couldn't use them as
they had before) which had no spyware on it, but had many many legitimate
programs on it. Which is my point. Which you're going out of your
way to pretend not to understand.
"willingly" but not in an informed way. Yes, you're an idiot if you
(a) install it, and/or (b) leave it there. But if you think that anyone
said "I think I'll install some spyware", I would suggest that you're
Yes, the OS was written in such a way that it was simple for people to
harm their own setup. What's your point?
Are you saying it didn't break "legitimate software"? MS disagrees with you.
Oddly enough, I agree with MS on that one, which may be a first in decades.
I am not aware of any adware which makes a computer unusable. If you think
about it, that would be rather stupid to write a piece of software to
display ads to a user, which prevents the user from seeing the ads, y'see.
OK, so it was dozens rather than hundreds. Either way, it makes your claim
that it was just infested computers that were harmed, wrong.
Whatever. You claimed it only broke infessted systems. That much is true.
It broke windows-infested systems.
Good. As long as you don't post bullshit like "it only broke spyware
infested systems", we won't have anything else to say to each other.
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:51:43 -0400, "Mark Cooper"
I think you meant to say "affected". ;-)
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and
bring something to kill"
Several older apps I have won't run on SP2, I get a can't run 16 bit error.
Good thing I still have ME on the laptop, and it works flawlessly. Never
had any issues with ME on the laptop, but on the desktop it was flakey as
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