Yet another smart meter question

[NY]

Things have evidently changed since my house (built in the mid 80s) which had *separate* storage heaters (which were *only* powered when the meter switched on their supply) and panel radiators for daytime top-up usage. The house was so small and had an open-plan living room / kitchen / staircase, so one storage heater in the living room was deemed to be enough to heat the whole house.

I found I used the panel radiators quite a bit in cold weather because the storage heaters didn't provide enough heat to keep the house warm right up to bedtime and I started to get cold during the evening if it was very cold outside. I was too stingy to get the storage heater upgraded to one that could store more energy, and "suffered in silence" for the 10 years I lived there.

I presume dual-tariff meters charge *all* electricity usage (and not just that on the switched storage heaters) at the lower rate during the 7 off-peak hours. I never thought to check whether the off-peak reading changed at all during the summer when the storage heater remained off because the ambient temperature was high enough for its thermostat to keep it off. Mind you, the amount of electricity used overnight when I was asleep (so lights, computers, cooker etc were turned off) would be very small - maybe less than a modern digital meter can record - our present one only records to the nearest whole kWhr. Nowadays we'd have things like TVs on standby and internet routers left on 24/7, but in the 80s and 90s there was probably very little electricity usage overnight apart from the storage heaters.

[polygonum_on_google]

And refrigerators and freezers. Both often less efficient than the best models of today. TV standby that, in the worst cases, took almost as much as when operating. Lighting - lots of people left at least one light on all night at a minimum of 60W.

[Robin]

Add to what others have said washing machine and tumble dryer. (We never have had E7 but ours just came with time-delay starts which facilitate that.) If you've got E7 it makes sense to use t as much as possible. But it'd be a pain to have to wire white goods to 2 different circuits just to do so.

[John Rumm]

Just because you have a dual rate meter, it does not mean that you have E7 necessarily.

Even if you do have E7, that does not imply you need auto switching at the supply end - with modern kit it makes more sense to have switching at the equipment end since you get more flexibility.

You can wire them to run from one feed only if you want, and have their own timers decide when to recharge.

The obvious modern use would be charging a car. But a large scale heatbank would be another good option.

[Dave W]

Thanks for the link, which didn't work. I navigated the site and got as far as:

states "integrated 100A switch" on the "more information" tab, but the link to their brochure on the "resources" tab is 404 not found.

I found it by Googling for the pdf, which directed me to

So now I'm in fear and dread like everyone else of being cut off through some software fault!

The brochure contains the following words about communication, which others have queried on this thread:

Intimate Communications Hub Comprising HAN and WAN Technology GPRS WAN with Internal Bi-Directional Antenna Supporting DLMS COSEM (Optional Module to Support External Antenna Variant) Zigbee HAN 2.4 GHz Supporting SEP V1.2 HAN and WAN Compliant with SSWG UK Extensions Local Optical Port - IEC 62056-21 (physical)

[whisky-dave]

As far as I know that isnlt required the metering of the electricity is done as soon as it enters my flat, so everything (including charging my iphone) is at the E7 rate between 11:30pm to 6:30am .

The problem with running washing machines is the noise they make or rather can make, and I don't like leaving such things on when I'm asleep.

[Dave Liquorice]

Ours does.

Hum, older style storeage heaters leak heat like a sieve. The ambient temp might have kept the vent closed and (slightly) more heat in. I'd still expect it to take some charge in the off-peak period to replace that heat lost to leakage. Only way to stop a storeheater taking some charge is to isolate from the supply.

It only displays whole kWHrs. I bet its internal measuring will be some what finer. B-)

[Dave Liquorice]

Compared to space heating via storeage heaters those are minimal consumers of energy. Tumble drier, 3 kW for couple of hours 6 kWHrs. A single 3 kW storeage heater may well be taking 3 kW for the entire

7 hours = 21 kWHrs. We have 3 x 3 kW storeage heaters = 63 kWHrs...

I guess but I'd not be happy letting a drier run "unattended" and washing machines tend to be noisey.

You wouldn't have to all consumption in the off peak period is at the lower rate.

[NY]

Mine seemed to give out as much heat at night as during the night (when the room was colder) as during the day when the temperature outside would be higher and so the temp inside would be higher (or else rate of heat loss would be less due to smaller difference in temp). I'm sure the heater was buggered right from that start - I just never did anything about it.

I'm sure it will be. I was just meaning that measuring a fairly small amount of electricity used overnight by non-heating appliances would be subject to a fairly large error if the visible reading was rounded to integer kWhr.

I had forgotten about fridges and freezers which run 24/7 (subject to their own thermostats).

I'd also forgotten that my immersion heater was driven off Economy 7, as well as having a second element that was only half-way down the tank that could be switched on at any time, I was very rudely woken up at about 1 AM one night by a very loud bang and a metallic clang. The full-tank element had blown up inside the tank (presumably a short) which blew its 30 A fuse downstairs and had split the element in two, with the free end being projected into the copper cylinder (hence the metallic clang). There were impressive scorch marks on the fuse box for ever after.

Changing that element was a real DIY saga, because the drain c*ck was round the back of the cylinder, so after I'd emptied the header tank and run off as much water as I could, and disconnected the inlet and outlet pipes. I had to "walk" the *full* tank round on the supporting baulks of wood by about 90 degrees until I could get at the c*ck to attach a hosepipe and undo the tap. Even though I only had a small cylinder, it took some shifting; And undoing the element with a box spanner that I hired took some doing. Luckily the guy in the hire shop advised me to undo it about half a turn while the cylinder was still full, as this would prevent the copper of an empty tank from buckling if I had to use serious levels of brute force to shift it.

[Robin]

OK, ta.

[Robin]

Sorry about the link. I can't explain it. But glad it provided a crumb for Google to follow.

[AnthonyL]

We were just in front at our last property by having the washing machine on, having the immersion heater come on, and showering during E7. We did have the benefit of E7 being from 3am.

Now with combi gas we are just on single tariff.

[polygonum_on_google]

I think Whirlpool/Hotpoint/etc. have put paid to E7 (or any other overnight or unattended) running W/m and T/D. OK, some might still do it, but I suspect an awful lot wouldn't.

[Robin]

We have a T/D from one of the brands whose names are now forever blackened. But its panels are all metal; and when I took the top off last month to check there wasn't enough fluff to make it worth getting out the vac.

[Tufnell Park]

E7 domestic timeswitches used to be 80/100A capacity but a lot dual rate meters are now controlled by a radio teleswitch which has a rating of about 2A necessitating the use of a contactor for any heating load.

[John Rumm]

So are you suggesting that if leaving turns out to offer a significant boost to propriety for all, that there should be a windfall tax on any that voted remain so as to redistribute their share of the gain to those that voted leave?

So how much can I charge you for reduction in my life quality I have to endure reading your never ending drone about leavers, remainers, and brain chirality?

[Mark Carver]

My parents used to run the dishwasher and washing machine (in addition to their storage heaters) on it.

In the future, car charging !?

[Chris Hogg]

Except by then there'll be such a demand for electricity, midnight to seven AM, it'll no longer be 'economy'. Might even be more expensive!

[tony sayer]

In article [e-mail], Chris Hogg [e-mail] scribeth thus

Its not "taxed" as yet for car use is it?..

[bert]

Is it still the case that if you have E7 your daytime elec becomes more expensive so small usage saves little.