Wind farm subsidies axed 'to stop turbines covering beautiful countryside'

[Jonno]

Fuck me - HTF did you lot miss this ?

The jocks are having kittens, they believe they will be losing £3billion a year over this.

[Davey]

When I saw Sturgeon moaning about that, I wondered why she doesn't use Scottish Government money to continue to fund the windfarm folk. But then I realised that the SNP way is to only grab funds from the English, so that is a non-starter.

[alan_m]

Surely they are making a profit by selling all that free energy?

[Chris Hogg]

I heard she was also wanting support for the North Sea oil industry, that producer of high-carbon, un-green CO2 polluting fuel. Talk about facing both ways at once!

Still, she's a politician, so what can you expect.

[Cock o' the North]

The Scots may bleat (or greet) but;

On shore wind is established technology now (30 years+) so needs no subsidy, off shore wind and tidal barrages are the emerging technologies thus needing subsidy.

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[Brian-Gaff]

The policy change was all over the national news in the last few days. Did not seem to be much point in pointing it out. They claim they want this levy on our bills still to betaken but as we have reached the intended target of watt/hours etc, it will be redirected to other renewable power sources. Tidal, seems to be the front runner right now. Brian

[spuorgelgoog]

Oh right. I thought for a minute our electricity bills might go down.

Silly me.

Owain

[dennis]

Miss what? Didn't you read the manifesto?

[Jonno]

dennis@home scribbled

You did? How odd is that.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Any money the 'Scottish Government' has is controlled by Westminster. They have no income raising powers of their own, as of now.

BTW, who do you consider the English? Which part of England isn't also controlled by Westminster?

But perhaps you thing that all parts of England are perfectly happy with 'the funds' being spend there. If you do, you need to get your head out of the sand.

[Andy Burns]

I thought they were given income tax varying powers during the last parliament, but so far have chosen not to use them?

[Robin]

That is as near as matters a complete misunderstanding of how block grants work. The Scottish Government[1] is free to decide how to spend the money on services such as schools, hospitals, policing, transport etc. It needs no permission from Westminster (whether by "Westminster" you mean government or Parliament).

I don't know what you mean by "no income raising powers of their own" but the Scotland Act 1998 gave the Scottish Parliament the power to vary the basic rate of income tax up or down by 3 percentage points - known as the "Scottish Variable Rate". That was replaced by the Scotland Act

2012 which provides instead power to set a Scottish rate of income tax. The Act also devolved to Scotland land and waste taxes. And the Scottish Government has now introduced its own, distinct Land and Buildings Transaction Tax which came into force on 1 April and so is raising money as of now. [1] your quotes omitted as "Scottish Government" was given statutory recognition in s.12 of the Scotland Act 2012 for use in place of the Scottish Executive. But if you have reasons to qualify the term do please share.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Free as in given just about enough to barely maintain those services. The same as the rest of the country.

I take it you are a civil servant?

[Robin]

That's a matter of judgment. I suspect many - eg in Greece - would feel the Scottish Government had a cornucopia of resources. And they do have some powers to raise more money by taxation. That said, I can underdstand the reluctance to vary the rate of income tax on (loosely speaking) Scots. The SVR was never an easy option. And the Scottish Rate of income tax ain't attractive when the current Westminster government has promised not to increase the UK rate. It is *much* easier to sell the idea that freedom to borrow more and to grow the economy (by some means or other) would deliver the promised land - whatever the promised land is now that it's not following the model of Ireland and Iceland or joining the Eurozone :)

I'm just keen to promote the idea that accuracy matters in DIY management of public finances as much as in discussion of things I know much less about such as wiring, paving, roofing etc. etc. etc. etc.

[The Natural Philosopher]

3billion of ENGLISH money which they will have to find some other way.

[The Natural Philosopher]

[The Natural Philosopher]

ROFLMFAO.

Well I suppose they don't need subsidy to develop it, but they sure need subsidy to make it worthwhile to bu8oulkd it

So how many billions will we throw at tidal before that too is seen as to be another crock of utter shit?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Red herring. Many third world countries would feel the Greeks rich beyond dreams.

Which is why they were given the powers. Westminster guessing they wouldn't use it.

If Westminster really did want to give the Scots a fair degree of independence within the UK, they could. But given they keep control over local council spending, etc, it's unlikely. However, coming clean on where all revenues etc are generated within the UK might be embarrassing for all.

Some truly accurate figures would be welcome. But I doubt we'll ever see them.

[Robin]

It's hard to respond to such a high-level statement. It might help if you could say who you think is lying/obfuscating about what. (I think you can be safe in doing so if you name public bodies rather than individuals as a public authority cannot bring an action for defamation.).

Eg do you think ONS are being deliberately obstrucive when they say that:

"There are currently no agreed official estimates of total taxes raised in the four nations. Estimates of taxes raised in Scotland have been published by the Scottish Government since 1992 and estimates of taxes raised in Northern Ireland have been published by the Northern Ireland Executive since 2008. Estimates for England and Wales have not historically been published. In October 2013, Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs (HMRC) published experimental statistics of its first estimates of taxes raised in the four nations, which differed in some areas. HMRC and the Devolved Administrations recognise that it is not helpful to have differing published estimates of tax receipts and are committed to working together to develop a shared methodology for estimating regional tax receipts.

One issue is how to attribute the North Sea Revenues between the countries (all UK revenue and net borrowing numbers, unless stated, include total revenues). Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland (GERS - National Statistics) has published estimates of North Sea revenues generated in Scottish water. (GERS figures excluding government revenues from UK oil and gas production are presented below). As mentioned above, HMRC has produced some experimental statistics which allocate the revenues, including North Sea Revenues, between the four countries. More detail on both of these series (and detail on oil production statistics) can be found in the full data catalogue.

In 2011/12, total public sector revenue, excluding government revenues from UK oil and gas production, collected in Scotland was estimated at ?46.3 billion (8.2% of total UK non-oil and gas production revenue). These are National Statistics from GERS. In Northern Ireland the equivalent figure was ?14.1 billion or 2.5% of the equivalent UK total. The figures for Northern Ireland are not National Statistics but are fully comparable with Scotland and the UK."

And also argue with ONS when it states that:

"In 2009/10 to 2011/12, the annual average direct tax (such as income tax and National Insurance) paid by all UK households was ?7,360 per household. By country, Scotland paid ?7,056 per household, Northern Ireland paid ?5,647 and Wales paid ?5,564. This pattern is slightly different for indirect taxes (such as VAT and fuel duties) where the UK average was ?5,172 per household per year. Northern Ireland paid more than the average (?6,148), while Scotland and Wales were below average (?4,943 and ?4,608 respectively)."

Note that these figures confirm what is widely recognised - Scotland's economy is much closer to England's in terms of GVA, direct tax yield etc than Wales or NI.

What figures would you believe? Only those from the SNP? Only those from the Daily Mirror?