Votes for freedom

eg Catalonia,
I'm all for democracy and a free vote.
So hands up everyone that wants shut of the Welsh.
--
Adam

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UDI for Yorkshire, with Harry Gration (*) as King :-) The Kingdom of Yorkshire - has a nice ring to it!
(*) A well-known (in West Yorkshire) presenter of the BBC Regional News programme "Look North".
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On Sun, 8 Oct 2017 22:39:01 +0100, ARW

Like, 'hands up who wants out?' and only those hands counted?

Meh, like the EU ... for what reason as I don't have one for either? [1]
Cheers, T i m
[1] When we were on our motorcycle camping trips around the UK it was a big enough PITA when we came across a toll bridge or road (getting money out of your pocket whist sitting on a motorbike, especially when wearing waterproofs), let alone having a real border control. ;-(
p.s. One of our lady BMW riders took herself round the world and she used to keep a carton of cigarettes that, if just left on the counter would speed her passage though many customs posts. ;-)
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On 08/10/2017 22:39, ARW wrote:

I'm surprised that Salmond/Sturgeon didn't try and include the English vote in the Scottish referendum. Their victory would have been of landslide proportions.
For one, I believe the Barnet formula should be scrapped.
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On Sunday, 8 October 2017 23:30:05 UTC+1, Fredxxx wrote:

Some might say that's why they didn't include the English vote.
That way they don't actually have to come up with the jam when tomorrow comes.
Owain
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Just another utterly mindless conspiracy theory.
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On 09/10/2017 09:41, Rod Speed wrote:

Why? Polls were taken from the rest of the UK, there was no conspiracy.
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Irrelevant to that utterly mindless conspiracy theory about jam.

Even sillier than you usually manage.
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Absolutely. London generates by far the most money, and subsidises the rest of the UK. So time for it to go independent, stay in the EU, and let the rest of the country starve.
--
*I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 09/10/2017 11:28, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Ah, the magic bucket of money theory again.
Where do you think the "city" gets all of its money if not from all of us in the form of our pension funds, the value of the companies we work for and for the last decade from a poorer standard of living for the general population due to the various measures used to bail them out.
--
mailto: news admac {dot] myzen co uk

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From the 'financial services' etc.

Most of it doesn’t come from there.

Its very arguable indeed that the general population has seen a poorer standard of living in the last decade.

That has certainly been where most of the big increase in govt debt has come from, but there isnt any evidence of a poorer standard of living for the general population.
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You're not actually trying to say every part of the UK generates income in some way or another, are you?
If it is OK for England to dispense with Scotland or Wales or Ireland because they are a net draw on resources, then the same applies to the rest of the country and London. Or any other part of the UK you happen to decide on.
--
*Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life *

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 08-Oct-17 10:39 PM, ARW wrote:

I think the Spanish government made a serious error of judgment in not allowing the referendum to go ahead without opposition. The evidence is that only about 40% of Catalans favour separation. If the police had not deterred any but the most vehement activists from voting, the referendum would probably have reflected that. In any case, a referendum is not binding and, in the Spanish case, the constitution would prevent the government from granting independence even if it didn't.

Only the Welsh could vote on that and they aren't likely to support it. OTOH, if Northern Ireland voted to break away, it would solve the post-Brexit border problem.
--
--

Colin Bignell
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Their problem is that when the referendum produces a large majority who vote to leave, they can't just ignore that.

We've just seen how wrong the 'evidence' can be with referenda.

Easy to claim...

But very politically difficult to ignore.

Irrelevant.

That's not true either.

Unlikely.

And if they didn’t, it wouldn’t.
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You mean, let the Irish state deal with the ensuing resumption of violence?
--
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
(and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 10:36:58 +0100, Tim Streater

Indeed. The right-wing gutter press are particularly good at this. They portrayed the EU as demons under the bed, which convinced the Brexextremists.
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 16:29:00 +0100, Tim Streater

I don't agree. If anything, the UK is an oligarchy, with PPCs chosen by the political parties, not the voters.

That's an accurate description of the UK parliament, and we haven't been evolving away from it - it's hardly changed for centuries.

See above.
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You mean we get to elect the commissioners? You mean we can throw them out?

Tom Tugendhat was selected to be the Tory candidate via an open primary in Tonbridge and Malling. But such affairs are not cheap.
But at least in the UK you get to pick someone who will represent where you live. Unlike most continental systems which seem to use the list system where the candidates are all selected by the parties. Such people will always be political insiders since they are free to ignore the voters entirely.
You'll note also that there are no by-elections for MEPs. If one dies or resigns, the next one on the party list gets the nod.
--
"Hard" and "Soft" Brexit are code words for Leaving or Staying in the EU,
rather than for the terms of our departure.
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2017 17:08:45 +0100, Tim Streater

We elect the MEP, using a proportional system. We don't elect civil servants in the UK.

Many UK MPs are political insiders who ignore the voters. And I had no say in who the party selected here and who is our MP now.

No worse than the UK. If an MP dies/resigns a new one is chosen by the party and usually gets elected "on the nod".
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