VAT level on roof work primarily for insulation? And do these quotes look right?

I'm not sure if this is entirely the right group, but here goes...

We've got this old chapel, and the roof (most of which is overhang) is barely insulated, certainly nothing near any standard. The only way to do it is to take the tiles off. It needs doing, and unfortunately as there's virtually no loft, there aren't any grants (or not that any of the grants people are telling us).

Also, I thought the VAT level on work primarily for insulation (and thus carbon reduction) was 5%? But the quotes are at 15%.

Anyway, we had one quote we can blow straight out with a good laugh of =A323,000. However, the only other two that can really do much before winter are coming in at =A316,000 and =A318,000 including VAT.

This is WAY more than we were expecting - but the fact that the two were so close...does that suggest that basically, that's what the price is?

If you're feeling bored or brave, I've posted the spec that went out for quotes. Yes, there's a lot to do - they think about a month - but still .... =A316,000?!? (That's assuming we can actually borrow that much!). We were thinking =A310k inc, max. Or were we living in cloud cuckoo land?

Anyway.....

Starting with rear roof, strip down to top of outshot and save good small slates for front surface of roof.

Remove top few rows of slates at top of outshot roof to ascertain insulation levels below. If insulation is inadequate [TBA] then whole surface to be stripped and new insulation fitted as below. Price to be submitted for this as a separate item.

Check all structural timbers for rot or worm and treat or replace bad areas as necessary.

Replace facias and barge boards as necessary. New or existing facias to be topped off with 25mm deep [or as required =96 see 6 below] ventilation strip. This increase in height will facilitate the fitting of counter battens on the roof surface and a tilting fillet. New facias and barge boards should be naturally durable timber such as Western Red Cedar, Douglas Fir or European Larch.

Insulation on main roof:

Above sloping ceilings fit maximum possible thickness of rigid closed cell foam insulation such as Kingspan, i.e. to depth of rafters. This must be tightly fitted and any gaps between insulation edges and rafters filled with foam or mastic to prevent heat loss as a result of small convection currents. Insulation to extend over tops of walls.

On horizontal ceilings insulation will be installed to a depth of

250mm when roof is watertight. Insulation to be mineral fibre or equivalent 'non-itch' type or Warmcell. Latter would have to be installed by specialist contractor. Please provide prices for all options. Insulation should not extend under tanks or pipe runs. These should be insulated above and on the sides with appropriate materials.

All roof space and sloping ceiling electrics to be checked by qualified electrician and remedial work carried out before insulation is installed. New cable runs for e.g. new light positions, to be discussed with clients and installed. Electrician's written statement to be provided when work is compete. Breathable membrane to be fitted over entire roof surface and held with vertical treated battens.

Fit horizontal treated battens at spacing required for slate type as described below. Tilting fillet to be provided for first course. Dormers??

Slating. Good small slates as existing to be used for front elevation. Utilise those salvaged from rear and purchase additional s/hand as required. Fix with copper nails. Rear roof can have larger slates to match those on outshot. Purchase new or s/hand as necessary. . Vented ridge. Type TBA.

Soffits =96 FSC ply or as agreed.

Paint all facias and soffits. Paint type and colour TBA.

Rainwater goods. If minimal replacement required then use existing type. If extensive replacement required then type is TBA.

Lead valleys and flashings. Use Code 4. Valley lengths not to exceed

1200mm. Chimney cover flashings to be held in place with lead rolls and suitably pointed.

Check and renew chimney pointing, haunching and cowls as necessary.

Reply to
lardconcepts
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We've got this old chapel, and the roof (most of which is overhang) is barely insulated, certainly nothing near any standard. The only way to do it is to take the tiles off.

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How can this be "the only way". There must be an accessible "inside" roof that you can access.

Can you not put up insulated plasterboard?

Perhaps the property is listed?

tim

Reply to
tim.....

In my *very* limited experience the price will depend heavily on:

a. the size of the chapel - should we be thinking St George's Windsor or .....? b. where you are - central London or .....? c. the roof covering - you mention tiles, then slates: real slates = cost; small slates = more work.

You could speak to one of the trade bodies if you think you are being had. But the figures you quote did not strike me as outrageous - thought I am going by, as indicated, precious little experience and that all of "ordinary" little houses.

Reply to
neverwas

Well, here's the things - rooms not so big anyway. And this "internal insulation" stuff would have to be 8" thick to get the required 0.3 u value. It's very heavy, but more than that, the roof is 7' high at highest, I'm 6'4", with 8" board that's going to be a lot of head- tilting :)

Nah, but apparently the > a. the size of the chapel - should we be thinking St George's Windsor

No, just yer standard little chapel with an extension to the side and back, but not "big".

mid-Wales

Real slates

Reply to
lardconcepts

I looked into having all the slates taken off and replaced on a small Cumbrian cottage roof a few years ago. The quote was =C2=A315,000 which included an allowance for breakage and replacement.

As I was going to do the structural repair myself it sounded expensive, so I didn't buy the place. Glad I didn't - horrible neighbours :)

On the other hand a chap I know just came to replace five broken thick Honister green slates today and he only changed me =C2=A330, which included the new slates and his time.

R.

Reply to
TheOldFellow

The reduced rate of VAT only applies to residental buildings and buildings used for non-business charitable purposes.

It depends entirely upon the size of the chapel, but to me that sounds reasonable for a building not a lot bigger than a detached house, given the specfication.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
nightjar

On Aug 24, 6:38=A0pm, "nightjar" wrote:

Thanks! That spurred me on to look further - seems pretty clear to me!

HMRC Reference:Notice 708/6 (August 2006) Energy-saving materials

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?contentID=3DHM=CE_CL_000514(PDF) The reduced rate applies to installations of: insulation (see paragraph 2.8);

2.8 The reduced rate applies to installations of insulation for: roofs or lofts

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energy-saving materials You may be able to charge VAT at the reduced rate of 5 per cent when you supply and install certain energy-saving materials. The reduced rate only applies to specified energy-saving materials. And it only applies when you install them in certain types of building. Situations when the reduced rate would - and wouldn't - apply You can charge the reduced rate of VAT on work you do to install qualifying energy-saving materials, and on the price of the materials themselves. But if you only supply the materials then you must always charge the standard rate of VAT on them. If you have to do any minor work as part of the installation then you can charge the reduced rate on that too. This could include, for example, cutting down doors and windows or painting and plastering the area you've worked on to make good. But if installing the energy- saving materials is incidental to another job - such as building an extension or replacing a roof - then you can't charge the reduced rate on any of the work. If the standard rate of VAT applies to the main job then you'll have to charge it on the whole of the work. Materials you can charge the reduced rate on You can charge the reduced rate of VAT when you install the following energy-saving materials in a qualifying building: insulation Premises where you can charge the reduced rate on an installation You can only charge the reduced rate of VAT on qualifying energy saving materials when you install them in one of the following: residential accommodation

HMRC Reference:Notice 708 (February 2008) Building materials

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?contentID=3DHM=CE_CL_000513(PDF)

2.2 Retailers and builders=92 merchants charge VAT at the standard rate on most items they sell. Builders, however, charge VAT on =91building materials=92 that they supply and incorporate in a building (or its site) at the same rate as for their work. So, if their work is zero-rated or reduced-rated, then so are the =91building materials=92. However, some items are not =91building materials=92 and remain standard-rated.
Reply to
lardconcepts

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