uk-d-i-y.moderated? Views...

On 27/06/17 17:20, John Rumm wrote:

I've just joined.
2 comments:
It's very "pure".
But it's faceache which is the least suitable platform - no clear subject headings, difficult (impossible) to organise the view.
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 07:48:51 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

If you're on FB anyway, then this group is pretty sensible, although a bit low volume. It 'only' has 300 odd members (I was going to say) but compared to here...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/MendNotEnd/
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I did consider joining FB but one look at their Ts & Cs was enough to persuade me otherwise.
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"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't
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Of course. The many millions who use Facebook must all be idiots.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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A quarter of the world's population idiots? A reasonable, if low, estimate I would have thought.
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Roger Hayter

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Depends. If idiots were capable of setting up a Facebook account and using it. Or the phone or computer needed too. And having the money to do so too. Probably not.
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*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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The millions who use FB have, for the most part, not read the Ts & Cs.
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There's no obfuscated Perl contest because it's pointless.

- Jeff Polk
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50% of the world's population is of below average intelligence.
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Regards, Paul Herber
http://www.paulherber.co.uk/
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On 28/06/2017 13:53, Paul Herber wrote:

That depends on how you define intelligence and what the actual distribution is. There could be a lot more than 50% below the average.
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On 28/06/17 13:53, Paul Herber wrote:

Actually I think its slightly more than that.
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conspirators see right wing conspiracies everywhere"
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 14:53:12 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

And why it's ridiculous to give all of them the say, even on things that are important to *them*.
Like, they might not like the idea of 'immigration' because they think the 'foreigners' are 'coming here illegally and are given a new flat, a car and £10,000 a week'. In the real world we know that isn't true.
So, they vote for whatever person / party that says they are going to deal with 'immigration' when 1) it will have no impact on 99.9% immigrants they are talking about and 2) their own quality of life could get worse because there will be fewer people to wash their cars, treat them at the doctors or hospital, serve them in shops late at night or on the weekends, cook and deliver their food and pay tax to pay for their pensions.
Most of them don't like what they don't understand and they can't understand because they aren't intelligent, are (therefore) arrogant, don't look and don't listen (like bm and his kind).
They have tunnel vision and with that you can never see the 'bigger picture'.
So, with our democracy broken this way, maybe there could actually be a better way ... the problem is getting those who don't have a clue to realise they don't have a clue and let someone who knows more, actually make their lives better, not worse like if they had their way / say.
Cheers, T i m
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On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 16:02:25 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

ise.co.uk> wrote:

o

.

Talk about missing the points. 1. Any group not represented by voting right ends up getting anything from a rather raw deal to neglected & abused. 2. Look at the people that would claim to be suitable to choose who votes - god forbid that such people ever be in a position to make those choices.
There is one possible response to that. Determine how much vote someone get s according to IQ. A major problem with it is that IQ does not equal intell igence or political comprehension, so it's no ideal plan.
NT
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 08:25:54 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

IYHO of course. ;-)

Quite, but with a yes / no vote that could end up with 49% of the people in any case. When the chances are 99% of those wouldn't know what was best for them (ITRW) if it was handed to them on a plate.

Quite ... but do you understand the concept of Sortition for example? Did you know we select juries from the general public, *give them the best known FACTS)* and ask them to decide of the outcome of a court case?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

Quite, no plan is ideal ... but I really think we can do better than getting people I wouldn't trust to mow my lawn to decide the future for my children and grandchildren.
IQ is no real use without EQ, common sense, RW understanding and reason.
Cheers, T i m
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On Wednesday, 28 June 2017 17:10:56 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

rue.

In rather a lot of people's opinion

om a rather raw deal to neglected & abused.

that makes no sense

that's your ego again.

s - god forbid that such people ever be in a position to make those choices .

that doesn't really add anything much relevant to the debate either.

gets according to IQ. A major problem with it is that IQ does not equal int elligence or political comprehension, so it's no ideal plan.

I doubt it. You have a better plan?

common sense is mainly popular assumptions, which do not correlate well wit h iq.
NT
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On Wed, 28 Jun 2017 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>

Oh, so you can speak for 'a lot of people' authoritatively and I can't? Talk about egos! ;-)

Really, ok, if I have to spell it out ... You said " Any group not represented by voting right ends up getting anything from a rather raw deal to neglected & abused.". So (for example) the Brexit poll returned 52% if the people who voted voted leave so got what they wanted. 48% of those who voted didn't get what they wanted and so were your "ends up getting anything from a rather raw deal to neglected & abused".

Nothing to do with my ego mate because I am one of the 99%. It's those who *think* they have all the answers who have the ego issues.

Other that trying to get you to be less blinkered / more open minded and consider that our existing system may be broken and there could be alternatives that are more pertinent / relevant / efficient / beneficial (to the majority) *today*.

Then that may demonstrate just how entrenched / acceptant you are that the current system is the best for all of us.

No, but it seems strange that we (where we as about only half of those who voted) can take all of us (more than those who voted leave) into the unknown (Brexit) yet we don't consider a system that *could* be better for all of us?

Maybe, but it should still be part of the process.

You are probably right and why I often put less steed on IQ over EQ (as the former doesn't consider all the factors, including the human ones).
Cheers, T i m
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On Thursday, 29 June 2017 06:59:56 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

I haven't even claimed that.

I'm struggling to believe you so completely fail to understand what has been said.

Where do you get this notion that I think it's not?

If there are/is, tell us what it is. Obviously you can't.

do you have a better plan or not?

lol.

This is silly
NT

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On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 02:41:38 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:
<snip> >> Really, ok, if I have to spell it out ... You said " Any group not

And why do you think that is?

<snip> >> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sortition

Because I'm not aware you have offered an alternative solution? If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem. ;-)

Did you miss the link above somehow?

<snip>

It's not a plan it's being open to a discussion about the concept.

It is isn't it ... but some people actually could vote without knowing (or caring about possibly) all the facts. ;-)
Ok, so we all probably know that there was a percentage and potentially a large percentage who turn up to vote for these polls and local / general elections who really don't have any real clue.
I assume we hope that these potentially 'unconsidered' votes (from the potential outcome for all of us pov) will to some degree dilute / counter those radical voters who may also not be considering the best outcome for all of us over their own personal (/selfish) interests.
Then, somewhere in the middle are what I believe to be a tiny minority of those who actually do have a clue and who will vote for *the* (nearest / most likely) person / party / option to give the best result for the majority.
To vet the first group (out) a simple random 10 questions from a pool of say 1000 questions re current affairs / political roles / topics.
To vet out the second group a quick look at their Facebook pages or bumper stickers should do it. ;-)
Then we let the last batch (who will also have been tested and passed the above) to actually make a reasoned and educated choice on behalf of all of us.
Whilst I like the 'idea / ideals' of what we typically call democracy, the way we vote for it wouldn't make sense for anything other than 'what colour could we paint the local swimming pool' (and then a multiple choice list of scientifically proven 'appropriate' colours).
So like most of the democracy we are forced to play along with (to fool some into thinking they actually have a choice), it's often only a choice between a rock and a hard place (Brexit (as in deciding who was lying the least)) or a coin toss re the general elections as we have seen recently , even those we vote in change their minds / promises as fast as they change their socks, assuming they last long enough etc.
So we don't want the great unwashed voting for people with empty promises and all the wasted time, effort and money that involves, we want just a group of switched on people openly working to process good business practice and common sense for the benefit of all of us.
We generally trust all sorts of people to do the best for us in other things, why not that?
Like I have said, I don't have the answers, just keen to consider if there is anything better than we have now (and looking at the current mess we are in, there must be!). ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On Friday, 30 June 2017 02:26:48 UTC+1, T i m wrote:

Too daft for me.
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On Thu, 29 Jun 2017 23:33:18 -0700 (PDT), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: <snip> >> So we don't want the great unwashed voting for people with empty

Maybe you just don't get it ... but most / variations of it are already in use all round the world.
Got something better then?
Cheers, T i m
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wrote:

Nothing to get.

Like hell it is with elections and referendums.
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