uk-d-i-y.moderated? Views...

On Thursday, 22 June 2017 16:15:32 UTC+1, michael adams wrote:

thank you for confirming that you have a serious comprehension problem. And that you belong in the idiot filter.
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You don't even need to click on a mouse on any forum I've ever seen. Your browser inserts the picture in the text.
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*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Usenet was never universally liked either. Or indeed ever used by plenty early computer types.
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*Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 22/06/2017 08:38, Tim Watts wrote:

While in many cases true, its what many people know these days, and hence having one *in addition* to the the usenet group (which is mirrored both ways) might not be a bad thing. That way if you want access in the current way you still have it.
In some ways it seems like a natural extension of the faq / wiki site.
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On Thursday, 22 June 2017 11:21:44 UTC+1, John Rumm wrote:

I don't believe that splitting this group with a forum would be a good move at all. But perhaps one could present a ukdiy portal that's as easy to access as a forum. Easier in fact,by not splitting it into lots of different sub-areas.
NT
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On 22/06/2017 14:27, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I was not suggesting splitting at all - quite the reverse; providing a more accessible interface to the group that we control and configure.
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On 22/06/2017 14:44, John Rumm wrote:

It wouldn't hurt to put a *few* ads on it either to pay for the server and bandwidth.
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On 22/06/2017 18:58, dennis@home wrote:

Yup, could work... spare revenue could be used for tool givaways or similar...
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On 22/06/2017 19:31, John Rumm wrote:

That prompts the thought that a website might provide a platform for reviews of tools, fixings, etc. sent to the webmaster(s) by manufacturers/importers keen to reach a growing audience.
Well, it seems to work for some pretty odd sites which review IT kit ;)
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Robin
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On Thursday, 22 June 2017 21:11:41 UTC+1, Robin wrote:

That only works if you positively review almost everything. And that's impossible unless the reviews are just cobblers.
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On 22/06/2017 21:26, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

IMHO the more intelligent reviewers simply shift the scale - much as NASA did with condoms when they offered astronauts a choice between "large, gigantic, or humongous" rather than "small, medium, or large".
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On Thursday, 22 June 2017 22:16:51 UTC+1, Robin wrote:

So not worth having if it's free becomes not the number one. Makes the reviews of no value.
NT
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On Thu, 22 Jun 2017 08:38:54 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

====snip===
+1 (AoL, if you prefer). :-(
Many years ago, when Zetnet sold out to that asset stripping company, Breathe Networks Ltd (Spit!), its dispersed membership tried to sustain the community of "Zetnutters" that had been created by that ISP's closed newsgroups with a zetnet forum created during zetnet's death throes as BNL ineptly buggered up zetnet's USP (slowly on account BNL's technical staff seemed to be a bunch of ignorant fuckwits - I got an extra 12 months use out of zetnet's news server for free before it was given the final coupé de grace).
During that final troubled year, I joined the zetnet users' forum to get help with 'work-around' solutions to accessing the USP of zetnet's news server. I found it such a pain to log into just this one forum that more or less as soon as BNL had finally killed off the news server, I gave up trying to stay in touch with my fellow zetnutters.
Quite frankly, I can't understand how some folk manage to stay subscribed to more than two or three such fora without 'cheating' by simplifying/automating their 'secure' login procedures, let alone getting to grips with the rather klunky and disparate navigation algorithms employed.
Usenet and the various client news reader software may not be a perfect solution but at least it scales well, unlike the web browser accessed fora, each with their own peculiar login and navigation requirements which don't (scale, that is!).
The idiot posters and trolls aren't really a problem for those of us with enough common sense to make good use of the kill filter file (and the 'ignore thread' file if your news reader client has such an option). Failing all that, it's easy enough to ignore the postings of trolls and idiots and the urge to make a 'Knee Jerk Response' in a futile attempt to 'educate the idiots and trolls' of 'the truth'. As one of my friends, decades ago, was so fond of saying, "It's like trying to educate pork.".
This business of dealing with idiots and trolls might seem like a lot of hard work - it isn't - but trying to participate in more than two or three web fora is even more 'hard work' imho. And, what's worse is that many of the discussions of a 'technical nature' have contributors who would by comparison make the likes of Rod Speed and TNP look like geniuses!!! Who'd have thought! :-(
When you've been directed to as many such 'technical fora' in my googling for solutions to various computer related problems as I have over the past decade or more, you soon learn 'to bite your lip' as you realise the futility of even trying to contribute a myth busting fact to any of these fora. It's been good training in how to make best use of usenet. :-)
Moderation might seem like a solution to the problem of idiots and trolls but, quite frankly, this 'cure' can often turn out to be worse than 'the disease'. After all, there's no guarantee that the moderators will be any less ill informed or opinionated than the idiots and trolls it's meant to keep at bay. It's far better, imho, to retain the "Valour is the better part of discretion." principle in the hands of the individual contributors rather than leave this in the hands of a select elite.
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Johnny B Good

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On 22/06/2017 13:36, Johnny B Good wrote:

+1
However I also accept that we are missing potential contributors because we don't have a (good) web based way of accessing the group for those that are not familiar with usenet etc. If you have the web then you need to retain the newsgroup to keep all players happy.

aka "Don't try and teach a pig to sing, it will only upset the pig and frustrate you!"
Dealing with the spam and common trolls is easy enough (I find simply have a filter to mark their posts as "read" is adequate most cases, with the occasional kill sub thread for a few).
However dealing with the general petulance of some posters who historically were capable of posting interesting content is a slightly more tricky proposition. ISTM that having a much greater flow of of new (at least loosely) "on topic" content would go a long way to help. Even the most die hard "my os/political party/religion/choice of sandpaper is superior to all yours" type can usually make a decent conversation once they forget to climb on their personal soap box.
I don't see that we will find many of them by attracting new posters to usenet.

;-)

Indeed, and also in this day and age one takes the risk of no longer being seen as a "common carrier" if you have moderation in place, and then someone moans that you did not moderate something (they think) you should have.
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John.
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On 22/06/2017 08:38, Tim Watts wrote:

Mr shouty sold MoneyStupid.com or whatever it was called for a nice big sum.
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We call him Old Smartarse Lewis in our house.
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On Wednesday, 21 June 2017 19:31:05 UTC+1, Tim Watts wrote:

If you just decide on yes/no for individual posters, there's far less moderating work. Let the group vote rather than decide personally. I want 10 no votes for Rodney :)
NT
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Tim Watts wrote:

No need for that. It will turn into uklm where everybody has watch what they say and be nicey-nicey. As for new blood, it's too late for that. More or less the same people post here all of the time - there is nothing wrong with that as this is quite an active group. Leave well alone.
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On Wed, 21 Jun 2017 20:48:24 +0100, Mr Pounder Esquire wrote:

Tend towards agreeing with you, Mr. P. Groups that go moderated become rather like pubs after the smoking ban came in: cleaner but noticeably soul-less and sterile.
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On 23/06/17 22:50, Cursitor Doom wrote:

I am also reminded of as society I once joined years ago, all were despondent about the falling membership and wanted 'new blood'..
so I proposed going online and appealing to a much broader marklet. They accused me of trying to take it over and destroy the 'matey' nature of it all.
I left in disgust.
People don't really want what they say they want. When socialists got what they asked for the labour party did not vanish, they found something else to complain about instead.
Whining fills the empty hours...
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Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!



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