Totally OT: Heathrow T5 security trays

[Mike Barnes]

I used Heathrow Airport yesterday for the first time in several years. Horrible. Anyway I have a technical query which someone here will no doubt be able to shed (hah!) some light on.

The scene: T5 security. I dump the hardware from my pockets into the tray, followed by my backpack. I walk through the sensor gate, no problem. Time to pick up my stuff.

The trays emerge from the X-ray machine and go along a conveyor that clearly has powered rollers. My tray is heading away from me towards a sort of tunnel entrance where presumably empty trays disappear, change direction, and are fed back to the arrival area. I stop the tray with one hand before it gets to the tunnel entrance, but it's still pulling away from me. As I do that I see there's a notice there saying "Trays stop here automatically" or words to that effect. I think to myself that can't possibly work, because empty trays obviously aren't supposed to stop and the machine can't possibly tell whether a tray is empty or not.

So there I am with one hand on the tray to stop it being pulled towards the tunnel entrance and the other hand putting on my backpack and fishing out the other bits. A member of staff shouts at me, in that endearing way they have at Heathrow, to let the tray go. It's not much fun doing everything with one hand so I comply, and the tray stops just before the tunnel entrance, as advertised. I grab my phone and then the bloody tray sets off into the tunnel with my money and glasses in it. Fortunately I manage to stop it before it disappears completely and I pull it out and resume one-handed operation. When I've done I shoot an appreciative glance at the helpful member of staff and stomp off.

So, does anyone know: Is the system supposed to work by automatically detecting whether a tray is empty or not? If so, how could anyone be stupid enough to imagine that it would work reliably? And why didn't they take any notice when testing revealed, as it surely must have done, that the system doesn't actually work?

[Owain]

Probably uses some form of weighing mechanism under the rollers, like the Tesco self-scan checkouts discussed recently.

Image recognition might be an additional back-up which they obviously aren't using.

They probably tested it using a 1kg weight lifted on and. Not glasses and money.

I wonder what would happen if I flew to a telephones swapmeet with a suitcase full of Trimphones...

Owain

[geoff]

In message , Mike Barnes writes

Someone told me a few weeks ago that they are even making people take rings off and pass them through

Is that really true ?

[F]

Didn't when we went through in September.

[Steve Walker]

I should hope not! After forty years of wearing it my monther decided to have her engagement ring repaired, but first it had to be cut with a ring cutter, as over the years he finger had changed shape and the ring would not fit over her knuckle!

SteveW

[Adrian C]

That could get rather tricky in the places where *some* people wear their rings ...

and pass them through

yeah, T5 standard issue 'Angle Grinder' is awaiting in case of any trouble.

[geoff]

S'wot I was thinking ...

[Steve Firth]

If she doesn't want the ring damaged at the airport, then they will supply a hacksaw or angle grinder, I'm sure.

[Matty F]

You are not the first person to have noticed that it doesn't work:

"Then, when I got to security, I found that the system there is almost totally automated=97you move a tray onto the moving rollers so that it automatically goes through the X-ray machine; then it=92s supposed to stop automatically for you on the other side (I=92m not quite sure how that=92s supposed to work). You then go through the attendant rigmarole of emptying the tray: returning your coins, keys, and phones to your pocket; desisting from holding up your trousers long enough to put your belt back on; returning watch to wrist; and replacing your shoes. Once all that has been effected, the now-empty tray is supposed to take up its journey once more, and move to the end of the track where there is a unit which automatically drops the tray onto a lower-level track which moves in the opposite direction, ready for someone at the beginning of the process to take the tray and put it onto the top- level track replete with his own belongings.

Sounds frightfully clever, doesn=92t it? I only had to watch for about thirty seconds to see that the system is inherently flawed. I watched one man grapple with the machine which had stolen his laptop from him: the tray had started moving again before he had taken his computer out, and had moved into the unit which drops the tray on to the lower track. It was only with the combined struggle of this hapless passenger and one of the security staff that the laptop was rescued from the inner workings of the machine. Then I watched as another tray couldn=92t get into the transfer unit because it wasn=92t precisely straight on the track (it had been skewed slightly by the person removing his belongings from it)=97it got stuck at the entrance to the transfer unit, while the following trays began to crash into it. I can see that system getting old very quickly for staff and passengers alike."

[Tim W]

Matty F wibbled on Monday 16 November 2009 07:55

WTF was wrong with a pile of trays on a shortish counter/belt like T3 and T4?

[Dave Liquorice]

Elfin Safety init. Employee's are not allowed to bend and/or pick anything up these days in case they hurt themselves. And the metal trays might have a sharp edge and people would cut themselves. Far too dangerous to let people manually handle them.

Much safer to spend =A32.445 million on 6 months drawing up a specification, a couple of consultation periods, another 6 months evaluating the results of the consultations, 4 months awarding contracts for the supply of the kit, 3 months installing kit, 6 months to find that it doesn't work but is to spec, couple of years of legal wrangling, whilst at the same time bringing in some more experts spend another 6 months drawing up a revised specification, followed by consultations, evaluation etc...

It's not about handling passengers quickly, safety of staff or any other practical matter. It's about bums on offices seats doing F.All useful.

[Mike Barnes]

Thanks for that. I read the whole article and sympathised with its complaints about poor/missing signage and unhelpful staff. I could write twice as much again about my own experiences, if I could be bothered.

The most positive thing about my experience is that Heathrow didn't quite manage to topple Paris CDG from its position at the top of our AMWO (Airports Most Worth Avoiding) list. But it's firmly in second place.

I'm still interested to know how the T5 tray return system is *supposed* to work, if any of the practical minds on this group know the answer. The system is so obviously misguided, I can't even imagine what the designer had in mind. Is there some technology that could reliably tell the difference between an empty tray and a tray with (say) a postage stamp in it?

Normally you have a person there who checks that trays are empty, and if not politely prompts the passenger to reclaim their stuff. Then they dispatch the empty tray to the arrival side. I don't see how any machine, even in the fantasy world of the system designer, could reliably do that.

[Tim W]

Dave Liquorice wibbled on Monday 16 November 2009 09:26

FFS. The trays must weigh 4oz if that. Perhaps they aren't allowed to run after me if I leg it :) Oh, they've thought of that - hairy coppers with machine guns everywhere...

Aren't they all plastic?

Of course...

Well, this is Britain...

[Jules]

If I ever go there, I know what I'm doing, then...

I imagine it is done by weight as that's pretty simple - but like you say, there could be stuff that it misses, particularly as trays get a little scuffed and worn and the weight difference between new tray and old tray increases and there's more slop in the system.

They could photograph the trays as they pass and process the image (something tray-sized of uniform colour, within some error margin, equating to "empty tray") - but that only really works if the tray can be positioned pretty much exactly under the camera, and it sounds like the system isn't so precise...

Last time I went through Heathrow I was carrying sealed medical x-rays, and that caused a bit of hoo-hah with the security folk.

Still, it's all got to be better than that new airport system (Manchester, wasn't it?) that does full-body x-rays...

cheers

Jules

[Neil Williams]

It sounds a ridiculous idea, but that's Thiefrow for you.

When I go through airport security, I prefer to take the tray away with me to the "re-packing" area, sort things out at my leisure and return it to the security staff once done. This is more practical for me (easier to carry it away, less rushed) and for them (I'm out of their way while I'm sorting my stuff out).

This sounds like I'd have to get in the way while doing so... technology for technology's sake?

Neil

[Tim W]

John Rumm wibbled on Monday 16 November 2009 15:52

[Tim W]

Stuart Noble wibbled on Monday 16 November 2009 16:15

Apparently...

[Andrew Gabriel]

It's a year since I've been through T5, but ISTR there was a camera looking down into the tray. I didn't notice it was all automated though. My trips through T5 went without any incident and quite efficiently. They were all after the initial teething problems.

[Mike Tomlinson]

In article , Halmyre writes

Saw this at Granada airport last year. People encouraged to buy bottles in the shops before security. On passing through said bottles were discovered and confiscated. I noted with interest how the booze was placed carefully in a different bin to the other confiscated items, which were simply thrown into their bins.

[Halmyre]

If I was going to have a bottle of booze confiscated, I'd make damn sure no-one else was going to be able to drink it.

-- Halmyre