The last census?

The next census might be the last?
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51468919
Just like the previous one was supposed to be the last?
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10584385
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On 12/02/20 07:13, Andy Burns wrote:

More wasted money on legalised snooping. Why don't they just pay Google for the info?
Every ten years I have fun trying to (legally) make it as difficult as possible for the coders/OCR equipment to read my census return. For example, many years ago the requirement was for it to be completed in blue or black ink. That year I used the palest blue colour I could find - it was almost indistinguishable from the background, but it /was/ blue. The next time it was a requirement for the ink to be black, so I used a square font (like the one here <https://www.dafont.com/squarefont.font ) with the lines of the letters entered without spacing between them and the edges of the black boxes. But the ink /was/ black.
I wonder what the requirement will be next year?
--

Jeff

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On 12/02/2020 08:12, Jeff Layman wrote:

Well assuming a team of people are being paid to manually enter any tricky forms, that's even more money wasted then. Well done.

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On 12/02/20 08:28, Richard Conway wrote:

I do my best. But it is a drop in the ocean compared to the overall cost of a census.
The Census Act 1920 was a short, but very well written piece of legislation which makes it impossible to refuse to complete a census request. Well, you /can/ refuse, but it leads to a conviction, fine, and another request to complete the census form. Refuse that, and another fine, etc (maybe eventually leading to even a "contempt of court" conviction). It's obviously a really heinous crime in the eyes of the UK Government.
Nearly all the information available from a census is obtainable form other sources (the birth, marriage, and death register is a good start). Some countries have realised this and don't require a general census (see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_and_housing_censuses_by_country#Methods_of_conducting_population_census>).
If those countries can do it, why can't we? After every census, there is talk of abolishing it, but it gets nowhere. Even talk of making the 2021 census fillable online misses the point; it's just not necessary as the information is already out there. If anything sensible is required which /isn't/ out there, well, great, ask for it - but specifically.
Resistance may be futile, but if upsets the "governmental Borgs" in any way, it is worthwhile IMHO.
--

Jeff

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On Wed, 12 Feb 2020 09:25:31 +0000, Jeff Layman

My Mrs just had to renew her driving licence (because she's nearly 70 I think). She had her old (paper) driving licence but that (and a photo) wasn't good enough to be able to issue a replacement apparently, so because she didn't have a passport or any of the other acceptable ID related things, had to send an original birth and marriage cert's.
I get why etc, but as has been mentioned, these agencies have enough information on us anyway but 1) *they* requested of her she update her licence and 2) she (or someone fraudulently) has just replaced her paper licence with no photo with one with a photo licence (of them if it was fraudulent etc). Was all that because a photo licence would be more powerful as a form of ID (to a fraudster) compared with the old type?
Cheers, T i m
p.s. I still have the green paper licence and believe it has been refused as ID in some instances as it's not 'Photo ID'. I just enjoy not having to replace it but maybe I could as I may not have that many 'every 10 years' (is it?) left. ;-)
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On 12/02/2020 10:04, T i m wrote:

<snip>

I have a driving licence with a photo ID on the reverse and ignored all the threats of £1000 fine for not renewing it once 10 years (?) had passed.
What people don't realise is it's 2 cards in 1. One side is the driving licence which has the expiry date for each class of vehicle as being the drivers 70th(?) birthday and the other side is a picture I.D. which has a 10(?) year expiry. The deception is with the implication that the driving licence becomes invalid after 10 years which it doesn't.
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wrote:
<snip>

Was it just one camera for all lanes, in which case it might be down to an operator looking at the road-markings or if a camera per lane, then the cameras themselves (with support from the markings)?
Cheers, T i m
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T i m wrote:

I think camera per lane above, flash was certainly "from above", though some gantries on that stretch have two cameras at the side of the road looking at all lanes.
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"I think"! Don't you know her age?
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That reminds me of a very funny incident. When my grandpa married for the second time, some years after my grandma died, my dad acted as my grandpa's (his father-in-law's) best man (*). When it came to the signing of the registers, when ages are shown on the marriage certificate, dad reports that grandpa muttered to him "bloody hell, I didn't know she was that old". The difference in ages between grandpa and his new wife was only a matter of a year or so, but grandpa evidently though his new wife was slightly younger, rather than slightly older, than him.
Caveat emptor ;=) Or "try before you buy" ;-)
(*) Probably because grandpa didn't have any male blood-relatives or friends that he could ask, so he asked his son-in-law to be his best man.
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wrote:

Rewind ... 'I think it was because she's nearly 70 she had to renew her driving licence?' ;-)
But yes, I know she's 'nearly 70' but have no real idea of her (or anyone else's for that matter) birthday (and so won't be 'celebrating' it either etc). For balance, the Mrs rarely remember mine and doesn't celebrate it either as nor do I.
I think daughter might be arranging something (some sort of gathering possibly) but unless *very* small (/ restricted friends / family), I won't be going (or be expected to go).
TBH, I'm not sure the Mrs would be up to celebrating her birthday, even her 70th ... as it would be the day after her daughter had reached 40, had she not died last March. ;-(
Cheers, T i m
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Oh, I see. That reminds me of the mixup with phrases like:
"I would like to thank my parents, Susan and God".
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That's where the Oxford Comma (*) comes in useful ;-)
(*) A normally-redundant comma before "and".
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On 12/02/2020 20:40, NY wrote:

That is because at oxford they donmt know any more punctuation marks.
It should read either "I would like to thank my parents: Susan and God".
Or "I would like to thank my parents, Susan and God".
which is pretty unambiguous. That is if you want to group things together rather than a homogenous list, use ways to to that that do not involve a comma.
--
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign,
that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
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wrote:
<snip> >>>> My Mrs just had to renew her driving licence (because she's nearly 70

<snip>

Quite.
Of course such things can just be poorly phrased and (accidentally) allow ambiguity of interpretation (especially if not taken in context, an understanding of the bigger picture and / or reading between the lines etc) or very carefully honed and planned to imply things, like 'We send the EU £350m a week: let’s fund our NHS instead' that were never true or linked (formally).
"In his spat with the UK Statistics Authority Johnson now says he is shocked, SHOCKED that his words should be understood in this crassly simplistic way. To suggest that he was claiming that £350m might be “available for extra public spending” is a “wilful distortion” etc. In other words, the foreign secretary’s defence amounts to an admission that the slogan on his famous Brexit campaign bus – “We send the EU £350m a week: let’s fund our NHS instead” – was bogus all along."
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/18/boris-johnson-350-million-claim-bogus-foreign-secretary
The real problem with examples like the one above is when very important decisions are then potentially swayed because of them (and that fact is swept under the carpet). Hardly democracy as she was intended.
"Johnson now says he is shocked ..." ... He might be because he's a puppet, I bet his campaign\\\\\\\\lies team aren't.
Cheers, T i m
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On 12/02/2020 09:25, Jeff Layman wrote:

That is one of those "yes in theory" kind of things, that tends to collapse into chaos the moment you look at the implementation details.
The reality is that the information that exists is spread across multiple databases - not necessarily all accessible centrally. All these databases are "not connected" - not only physically - different incompatible systems, different networks / repositories, but also logically not connected - They are all using different key fields and with no way of accurately joining records from one with another, with any assurance that you have linked the correct records together. Even when correctly joined there is no way of resolving conflicts between them. You also have the difficulty that the data were collected for a myriad of different purposes, so there is a high likelihood that the answers are give in completely different contexts, and hence could be considered "wrong" for census purposes.

Can they do it as well as we do it? Do they do it for the same purpose?
--
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John.
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And when I was a teenager, I deliberately misspelled my name with some of the free trial subs to mags like Time and Life and that would fuck the system.
And my writing is so atrocious that plenty even manage to fuck up my last name, even ending up with weird variations like Spego once.

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Doing that, or even just inventing a variety of different fictitious middle initials, can be a very good way of identifying where spammers have got your name from. If you only ever used a middle initial of B with Time, and with no-one else, any spammers or junk mailers that use it must have got your details from Time's mailing list.
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Yeah, that’s why I did that with the free trial mag subs.

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On 12/02/2020 09:25, Jeff Layman wrote:

I guess it's like a stocktake. A shop's sales system can track stock deliveries and sales, but they still need to stocktake to account for anything that's been missed.

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