Submersible Pumps

[Richard Savage]

Can anyone venture an opinion on submersible pumps?

At present all the water off the rear roof of my my house drains into one waterbut (the previous owner had a rats nest of hoses distributing the water over her garden) with predictably disastrous results in the current damp weather.

I have been borrowing a submersible pump which sits in said waterbut and periodically empties it into a drain.

Now I need to buy my own pump and have seen a SIP Sub 2000 Mk2 FS for £50 at Toolstation or a Wolf Dirty Water pump with float switch also for about £50 from S*****fix.

The only differences that seem relevant are a 5m head for the SIP compared with 7m for the Wolf, but most important the SIP can handle particles up to 6 mm whereas the Wolf claims to deal with 18 mm diameter solids.

Is the Wolf worth serious consideration? I have in mind the leaves and other c**p that is washed off my roof.

TIA

Richard

[Ian Stirling]

They are cool.

Have you considered a siphon? You take a 1" bit of hose, of the appropriate length to take it over the drain. Immediately over the drain you place a small container into which the siphon end is submerged. This is set at the level to which you want the water to drain. An overflow from this container flows into the drain.

[Richard Savage]

No, but it wouldn't be self starting would it? Or have I not understood what mean (more likely at this time of night). I can't somehow see myself sucking on a syphon tube as the waterbut nears overflow. It was bad enough last night, well this morning actually (01:30) dancing around in my dressing gown trying to get the bloody pump to empty the waterbut and thus prevent the garage flooding.

Also in my endeavour for a concise thread I omitted to mention that the drain is on the opposite side of a car parking space under a carport and that discharging rain water into a foul drain, which is all we have, is strictly illegal with seriously big fines if you are caught! For my part I would take a chance and discretely build a connection for the rain water into the foul drain. SWMBO is a solicitor - need I say more ;-)

I had also thought that I could take advantage of the lifting capability of these pumps to run the outlet across the roof of the carport and into the drain - I'm currently using the scullery drain. Apparently SWMBO disapproves less of this than my idea of a permanent connection women!

As an alternative I could pump the water out of the far end of the garden and into the woods beyond.

Richard

[Harry Ziman]

I don't think the 5m or 7m head will make much difference - if you have any concerns use a larger hose which will have much more inpact. For what its worth I would take particle sizes with a pinch of salt, but the larger one would probably be more sensible given you could be pumping moss, leaves and who knows what. You may get away with the other ....

I would not put the pump on the bottom of the tank - raise it a bit so any sediment can settle below the pump.

Hope that helps.

[John Stumbles]

Does it have to be submersible? Water butts usually have tappings to let the water out of the bottom, don't they?! You could use a central heating pump (price £0 from whichever local skip happens to have them in stock :-). They'll take all sorts of abuse.

[nightjar]

You can buy them with a bellows built in, which you use as a pump to start the syphon. Much better than sucking when you are transferring some liquids. Personally, I would prefer something a little more automatic.

Colin Bignell

[Huge]

Do you need a pump at all? Drill a hole at the top of the butt, insert a hose fitting (available from any garden centre), couple a hose and run to drain. When the level rises to top, water drains away by itself.

[Cicero]

Richard

=================== I think I may be missing something here! Do you need any pump or siphon at all? Is there any reason why you can't fit a simple overflow pipe somewhere near the top of the water butt? Overflow pipes are used routinely in domestic plumbing - toilet, CH etc. You would probably need a bigger diameter pipe than usual since you're draining a roof but you should only need a pipe the same size as the downpipe that drains the roof.

Another question.....

Are you sure that you're not allowed to pass rain water into a foul water drain? In my area it's exactly the opposite - no foul water into a rainwater drain.

Cic.

[Ian Stirling]

If the water never goes lower than the level of the end of the pipes (that's what the other container is for) then the water stays in the siphon, and automatically flows in and out to maintain a level.

[Ian Stirling]

To answer the other bit.

By 18mm solids, it pretty much means gravel. If you take the pump, put it in a ice cream tub in which you cut several holes, and tie the whole thing in a coarse mesh bag (leaving the float free) it'll do fine. Much less likely to clog as it's got a much wider surface area. Alternatively, even the 6mm one will cut up leaves as they go through, the problem is that if enough come at it in a clump it may block either inlet.

[G&M]

Are you in town ? Surely you and your neighbours can demand the water company install one then ?

[Richard Savage]

Hope these will answer some or all of your questions:

[1] The water but and scullery drain are separated by a thoroughfare - admitedly only to the garage but having to negotiate a length of 1.5" pipe with motorbikes, wheelie bins, cars (i.e. not parking on it) etc is a right pain. [2] The pipe regularly blocks with leaf muck. [3] In hot weather it sags into all sorts of narrow shapes and then blocks even faster. [4] My estate was built in the early '50s and is only provided with drainage for 'water and soil' i.e. foul sewars. Rain water from each house is supposed to discharge into soakaways. I looked up the relevant Act regarding discharge of surface water into foul water systems and got quiet a fright. It's all about preventing the sewerage system being overloaded by rain water - the amount of soil produced can, presumably be calculated, but not the rainfall? We do have road drains, now how can I tap into them?

My turn for a question now!

Most of this problem would go away if I could find the soakaway(s) at the back of the house. Two separate extensions where built at the back, both of which (probably) covered the existing soakaways as I understand that they used to be dug no more than 3m from the building. Only one of the rear gutters discharges into anything the coud possibly lead to a soakaway, namely a glazed soil pipe buried in the ground. Unfortunately this pipe runs parallel to the wall of one of the extensions. I'm REALLY afraid that the soakaway may still be in use under this extension but how do I find out?

I suppose that I should dig a new soakaway - how big/deep etc? - 6m from the house and lay pipes to it from the down pipes. However there is no way that this will be cheaper than a submersible pump and a length of pipe.

Richard

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