Stop/ start - fail

[Jim K...]

Harry Bloomfield, Esq. [e-mail]> Wrote in message:

Hillstarts?

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

I drove my first 'stop/start' vehicle today. Press the brake pedal down and the engine stops, apply the handbrake and release the foot-brake and the engine restarts - what a pointless system for anyone who drives properly and uses the handbrake.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Jim K... presented the following explanation :

No, normal stops in traffic and at the lights.

[Andy Burns]

They don't all work like that ...

[alan_m]

Mine stops when not in gear and my foot is not on the clutch. Depressing the clutch again restarts that engine. In town I find it to be somewhat of a PITA and I turn the system off. Unfortunately the system is always enabled again when initially starting the car with the key. Once automatically stopped the engine will randomly restart again if there is a heavy load draining the battery (such as the AC or lights being on). This unexpected random restart can be unnerving at times.

My car is also fitted with a hill start assist function. I encountered it for the first time when attempting to reverse park into a space on a fairly steep hill which required a tiny bit of additional forward/backward maneuvering to get the car closer to the curb and leave enough space back and front to allow others to get out of their parking spot. The hill assist detects the incline and automatically holds on the brakes for a time which made a fairly simple maneuver a lot more difficult. I found the menu item to turn off the function and I've never missed it since.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

It happens that alan_m formulated :

Sorry, I forgot to mention - it was an, rather than a manual.

[Paddy Dzell]

We have a Lexus RX450h hybrid and if I drive like I was taught to 44 years ago, ie, stop at red traffic lights, handbrake on and select neutral, the hybrid system doesn't work because it takes a signal from the brake pedal switch.

So, when approaching a red light I have to brake the car to a stop, leave it in D rather than shifting to N, and keep my foot on the brakes. You don't use the handbrake at all unless you're going to be stopped for a while.

The engine stops as the car comes to rest and restarts either when you press the accelerator or if still stopped but the hybrid battery is getting low, but if the car is in N then the engine would not restart to recharge the hybrid battery.

[NY]

My wife's Honda CR-V has auto-stop, though it's controlled by a switch switch remembers its state when you turn off the ignition. It works remarkably well: I don't think I've ever been wrong-footed by finding the the engine doesn't restart in time for setting off from lights.

I've not found any perverse interaction with the handbrake: it works if you brake to a halt with the footbrake, put the car in neutral, release the clutch (that's what triggers the engine to stop), apply the handbrake and release the footbrake - as I always have done and always will do (in a manual or an auto). It doesn't require you to keep your foot on the footbrake all the time you are stopped: that would be very inconsiderate to the drivers of cars behind you at night which would be dazzled by the brake lights.

If releasing the footbrake with the handbrake on had restarted the engine, I'd have soon picked that up on a test drive and chosen another car - or decided to disable auto-stop - because it is encouraging you to drive without thought for the car behind. My instructor was adamant on the point: "footbrake to make you stop; handbrake to stay stopped". In practice, the only exception is if I think I'll only be stopped for a couple of seconds.

The only quirk is that if I happen to knock the steering wheel, which probably lowers the pressure in the power-steering system, the engine restarts to replenish that pressure.

The Honda has this, but either it's disabled by default or else it is less obtrusive because I've never found it getting in the way of proper driving as taught for the normal test or the IAM advanced test.

In my own car, a Peugeot, I've had to do hill starts on a 1:3 hill near me. I usually allow plenty of space from the car in front in case he stalls or muffs a gearchange, but even so I've sometimes unexpectedly had to stop on the hill. With a diesel it's easy enough to restart because the engine will keep going even without your foot on the accelerator, which allows me to use my foot for the footbrake (in case the handbrake alone won't hold the car from rolling back on such a steep hill) and then once the car is rolling forward I can quickly move my foot across to the accelerator to start moving more quickly. Thankfully my car has a pretty good handbrake so I don't usually need to rely on the footbrake. My mum's old Renault, which I learned on, with a handbrake lever as an "umbrella handle" under the dashboard, had a lousy handbrake which wouldn't hold the car on even a slight uphill when doing a hill start.

[Caecilius]

The RX450h will operate the hybrid system normally if you put the gearbox in park instead of neutral.

[Jeff Layman]

Oh, there's even greater stupidity than that. In my car. with the engine stopped when I have my foot on the brake, if I then unclip my seatbelt (such as when I'm just about to drive into my garage) the engine restarts!

[Brian Reay]

We have it on our Smart Car, although you can turn it off. I don't care for it and turn it off.

The hybrid also has it but that also has auto hold, part of the electric handbrake. Basically, it applies and removes a pseudo handbrake as you take you foot off the accel or apply it. When you are running on petrol, the auto stop feature also works. All very smoothly. You really don't notice it.

I am curious how they test hill starts in driving tests in cars with electric handbrakes, but that isn't something I need to worry about.

[tabbypurr]

I think you can get done for keeping your foot on the brake & not using the handbrake. Even if that's not correct, it's not good practice. If an accidental shunt happens, drivers are prone to taking heir foot off the brake, resulting in more damage & hazard to pedestrians etc, and worse at T junctions.

There was a generation of cars that had hopeless handbrakes. Those are fun to start on steep hills.

NT

[Brian Reay]

Doesn?t your hybrid have a ?hold? function- almost like and automatic handbrake?

When you stop, it comes on. Put your foot on the accel. and it releases. You have to select to use it each journey but then it is automatic. If the car is running on petrol, the stop start system still works etc. All quite seamless, at least on the Outlander- you really don?t notice it.

I was never keen on automatics until we got the Outlander. The Smart Car is ok, although we ended up with an automatic due to availability. When we replace it, I haven?t decided whether to go for a manual - the new ones are mainly manual.

[ARW]

Highway code rule 114

You MUST NOT

use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders

use front or rear fog lights unless visibility is seriously reduced. You MUST switch them off when visibility improves to avoid dazzling other road users (see Rule 226).

In stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights. This will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again.

[Brian Gaff]

I would have also thought it puts a lot of stress on parts from cycling through, like the starter motor and the actual linkages in the engine itself. Brian

[Andy Burns]

The mounting bracket on the combined starter motor and alternator has partly broken, waiting for spare parts on back order ...

[NY]

If you are driving in stop-start traffic, so the engine is stopping and then having to be restarted every few seconds, it will eventually flatten the battery because the time that the engine is running is not enough to put back the charge that restarting has taken out of it. Cars with auto-stop usually have batteries with larger amp-hour ratings (*) so they can store more charge to compensate for the increased use of the starter motor.

Usually I find that the engine stops once when I join a queue of traffic at lights, and then restarts when I'm ready to start moving through the lights. But in a long queue, it may have to stop and start several times to get me right through to the head of the queue where I can then drive at a normal speed.

(*) Just as diesels have a larger Ahr rating battery that petrols because the higher compression makes it more difficult for the starter to turn the engine over.

[Andrew]

Apart from hill starts, who uses the handbrake these days ?. I just leave it parked in 1st gear hand brake OFF, unless I happen to be parked (rarely) on more than a slight gradient.

[Andrew]

If that is the one with a V6 petrol engine, then be aware that changing the spark plugs takes about 3 hours on some models. Involves removing the inlet manifolds according to me ex-MOT tester neighbour.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Dont even use it for that. hold the car on the foot brake

I just leave it parked in PARK...