Saniflo

[Steve Firth]

Or to put it another way... Oh Shit.

So, someone in the house has "faecal urgency" then they wash their hands then they flush the loo. Then they shout... "The water's not going down

- and the pump's making a funny noise."

On a scale of 0 - 10 how far does your heart sink? Mine made it to the MoHo.

I stared at it for an hour, wondering if there was any way I could get out of this. Decided no, I was going to have to tackle it. Marigolds, bucket, nose clip.

I decided that maybe the best thing to do would be to detach the outlet[1] and see if the pump was working by attaching the outlet to a hose and to a bucket. Flicked the switch on and... it worked fine. A bit gag inducing but it worked fine and with a bit of effort and running to the next (normal) loo the noxious contents were emptied out.

I thought that I'd shifted the blockage so I connected it up again and tried a flush. No, it won't flush, it loks like the outlet tube is blocked. I tried a pressure test with a handy pump and yes it's blocked solid. It's 22mm PEX, seamless and without any elbows all the way to the soil stack. So I'm puzzled by how it has managed to block. I don't have anything suitable for rodding it at present so I think a trip to Screwfix will have to be made tomorrow.

I really, really, hate Saniflos.

[1] You won't believe how glad I am that the outlet is downhill.

[gunsmith]

[RubberBiker]

What's the slope on the outlet pipe? Could there be a low point where a buildup of debris has occurred? Or has someone flushed something incompatible with a saniflo?

I'm in the process of installing one right now in a guest bedroom ensuite (yes, I've heard all the issues, but it would have been a very major piece of construction work to get gravity drainage to this point).

I'm going to need a 3 metre lift followed by 7 metres of gravity discharge (fits saniflo recommendations, 100:1 slope on gravity portion).

I guess you'd recommend larger than 22m discharge pipe?

I'm planning on using 40mm solvent weld, though there will have to be a few (at least 3) radius bends in that.

Any (sensible) advice from those with experience of what works best for saniflo discharge pipes?

[dennis]

I put one in my fathers house when he couldn't manage the stairs fast enough.

32mm solvent welded pipe was used and it never blocked. Don't forget to fit a screwed access pipe to the vertical bit or you will have to catch a load of cr@p when you attempt to uncouple the outlet pipe.

[Dave Liquorice]

Think about how you are going to deal with the, erm, "water" in the section of pipe with the 3m lift when you need to disconnect it. 3m of 40mm pipe contains about 4l. OK only a bucket full but it may well arrive quite quickly and don't forget the contents of any length before the lift.

The only thing I can think of is fitting a swept branch and a capping off the branch. though I don't like the idea of this cap being under

0.3bar of crap all the time....

[Dave Liquorice]

Is it a straight run to the stack or are there any bends, you mention no elbows but how about swept bends formed from the pipe, even large radius ones?

If it's straight can you get at the stack connection? Perhaps a small burr on the pipe end or fitting has collected enough bits of waste to reduce the available exit area and a larger, more resiliant lump, has come along and blocked it.

I wouldn't expect a blockage in a straight run of pipe but if there are any bends a tough bit could and then collect loo roll around it etc.

Had any female vistors recently that may be unaware of the trouble that sanitory products can give to a saniflow? What's the wording of the notice, something like: "Do not put anything down this toilet that has not passed through you first."

[Toby]

As it is 22mm pipe, could you assemble a connection to the hosepipe, and try and push it all though with mains water pressure?

Toby...

[cynic]

Surely a capped drain valve or even better a full bore ball plug valve fitted to the heel of the riser would make a sensible solution for the emergencies?

[dennis]

I don't think these will have a problem with that sort of pressure

are what I used.

[RubberBiker]

I had thought about doing the lift pipe in 22 or 28mm barrier pipe, then the gravity side in 40mm solvent weld.

As I see it, the lift side will always be "wet" so less likely to block, it's easier to route with no fittings/connections (hence no obvious point of failure), and there's a greater variety of drain-off fittings available.

Other than flexi-fittings I can't think of anything to connect between

22/28mm and 40mm though.

OTOH, doing it with 40mm right the way through, means the most likely blockage point will always be right at the non-return valve at the exit of the saniflo unit - which I can ensure is accessible.

Steve - sorry to hijack your thread here on a sub-theme - but hopefully it all adds to understanding the cause of your problems

[Andy Dingley]

Great plan until it all goes wrong. One of my favourite plumbing gadgets these days is a hand-pumped compressed air unblocker (so much more grunt than a plunger), but even that can be "interesting" for collateral damage and squirting sideways (I have a circle of tarpaulin with a 1" hole in it as a "catcher" to go over the bowl)

As it's 22mm pipe, why not just seal the ends off, bury it in situ and replace it with 40mm or at least 32mm? Saniflos are one thing, but a Saniflo down 22mm pipe is really asking for it.

[dennis]

A plunger applies a vacuum not pressure. It is designed to pull the blockage back up the pipe not force it down the pipe. I doubt if your pump applies more grunt to the pipe in the correct direction.

[Steve Firth]

Because it's a listed building and there's nowhere to run either 32 or

40mm. There would be no need to seal it and leave it, it could be removed fairly easily. Any replacement would have to be threaded through voids and down through an airing cupboard then have to negotiated some tricky curves to the soil stack. The 22mm pipe takes a relatively easy route and doesn't need elbows.

This is an old Saniflo, installed in 1993. Back then they only had 22mm outlets.

The problem seems to be one of "something that a Saniflo doesn't like", in this case, examing the contents of the bucket it seems to be a paper tissue that's slightly more resistant than loo paper. I suspect it's tangled somewhere in the tube.

[Andy Dingley]

Can't believe you can't fit 32mm anywhere you've already fitted 22mm, even if you have to use a bend radius that's much less than you'd otherwise choose.

[Steve Firth]

You can believe what you like, but unless you had actually visited the site and had the discussions with the LBO then I suggest that you're blowing it out of your arse. There's a restriction on the size of hole that can be made in the wall - there's currently room for a 22mm pipe - but to add either 32mm or 40mm would mean removal of five 300 year old bricks. The LBO doesn't approve that change.

That apart, the pipe run suits itself to gentle curves, but if rigid

32/40mm tube were used there would be eight elbow bends to negotiate the same route. And, as I pointed out before, the Saniflo doesn't have a 32mm outlet nor a 40mm outlet, it has a 22mm outlet.

Getting permission for installation of the lavatory was difficult enough as it was and was only given when I pointed out that the outlet coudl be run to an existing soil stack if we were very careful with the installation. I must have missed your presence at the meetings.

[The Medway Handyman]

Errm, no it doesn't.

Errm, no it isn't.

" Injects high pressure water. "

"Creates shockwave in water to remove blockages."

Talking bollox again.

[dennis]

Yes it does.

It does. It being a plunger like I said!

not being a plunger!

> "Creates shockwave in water to remove blockages."

Yes you are! You always talk bollox but you are too bloody stupid to understand you are talking bollox even when you are told you are!

Too bloody quick at trying to point out where I have it wrong to bother reading what the post says and making a fool of himself again! As I have told you many times, read the post and think before you make yourself look like an idiot!

[PeterC]

It applies pressure both ways - there's no such thing as a vacuum - those who have searched have found nothing. Any 'vacuum' tool works by lowering pressure thus allowing the atmosphere to push in. Differential pressures work; differential vacua don't exist.

[dennis]

Don't complicate things, TMH is already confused enough.

To all intents a plunger doesn't seal well enough on the push stroke to push much down the pipe, much like a rubber suction cup doesn't.

[Andy Burns]

Hopefully I never drink any water from anywhere near *your* house ...