Roundup or What?

[Lawrence]

This summer I've been trying to get rid of nettles and thistles prior to planting trees on my 1.5 acre field. I have been using "Roundup" which I bought as a cheap end of line at a local garden centre (£2.99 for the usual £10.99 bottles). I now need to stock up on some more or something equally as good. It must be able to kill nettles and thistles but must be able to be sprayed safely around trees without harming them. I know there are some who doubt that roundup biodegrades but I am willing to believe the manufacturer unless someone comes up with proof positive. So now the question. In researching cheaper sources, I've come across the problem that there are a number of different variants of roundup. The CG form seems to have 120g/litre of glyphosate, the ultimate form 360g/litre and the brush and shrub(? has 480g/litre but is it that simple? I've also read that you ought to add ammonium sulphate if you are using hard(ish) water to dilute it! If it is to be roundup, which form? Where is the cheapest place to get it? I see that Amazon has the CG at £14.06 per litre but I hear that agricultural supplies firms sell it in 5 litre bottles. Any advice appreciated.

Lawrence

[Peter Scott]

Look in your garden centre.There is now another supplier at less than one-third the price. Too wet to go the shed now, but I think its Bayer. I was very skeptical, having always used Roundup, but its just as good.

Once the lakes recede I'll get the exact name. £11 a bottle instead of £40 or so.

Peter Scott

[Spamlet]

Borrow some pigs: they soon get rid of everything... but...

Lots of trees in our town have been killed by the council obsession with killing everything that grows around them - and ringbarking them with strimmers for good measure. Those that aren't killed outright suffer and drop their leaves instead, and are then accused of being diseased and so are chainsawed before they get the chance to recover.

Except for a few trees like yew and rhododendron - which poison just about everything -, most get along fine with the right things growing beneath them, and this helps maintain the soil structure, biota, moisture and microclimate on which they depend.

And my experience - at least with 'shed grade' Roundup -, is that it just turns weeds a nasty brown colour and then they just grow back from the roots.

Actually, I would just plant your trees in with the nettles and thistles: this will hide them from the rabbits and deer to some extent and give them a chance to get rooted before the top gets browsed off. Remember: the HARD thing, is STOPPING land reverting to woodland. Large numbers of conservation volunteers spend most of their time trying to stop woodland from forming on what they want to keep as grassland. If you just fenced out your 1.5 acres from deer and rabbits you would soon have a wood.

S

[Dave Liquorice]

Nettles don't like being topped do it two or three times a year for a couple of years and they'll be gone. Thistles don't come back from being dug up, provided you get most of the tap root and they are in full flower but not gone to seed. Shove a fork full depth around the plant, waggle, lift and pull the plant. Best to do it when it after it has rained and the soil is soft.

1.5 acres with thistle plants every couple of feet would be a lot of thistle plants to get rid of and take a day or two.

[newshound]

Come on, someone recommend a gardening group (no use asking me)

[chris French]

In message , newshound writes

uk.rec.gardening

Where you will find this topic comes up fairly often.

As for cheapest.

1. look for a generic glyphosate product rather than Roundup, which is the Monsanto brand name and priced as such.

1. for that sort of area it'd be worth trying an agricultural suppliers. Though no hurry, as it's to late to be worth while spraying again this year.

The suggested way I've seen for clearing nettles is to cut them down in early spring, and then spray the regrowth, though as Dave suggests, cutting down nettles works well

[Sarotrob]

[chris French]

In message , Spamlet writes

They will, once big enough.

Depends on the weeds, somethings, do need more than one application.

Yes, and no.

If you are planting trees then just leaving them to battle it out with the weeds isn't the best course, a significant number will probably lose the battle.

[george [dicegeorge]]

a petrol lawnmower has turned my nettley garden back to grassland, the nettles and leavy things give up after being mowed every week for months, The grass carries on growing.

I only use chemicals to get rid of the Japanese Knotweed.

[g]

[Spamlet]

Yes: that is because planting trees is unnatural. Most of the trees that blew down in the great storm were planted trees. Better to let them choose where to grow and let them get on with it, so there is no root disturbance. The birds will bring in all the seeds from the local area that are most suited to the conditions. First the trees will grow along the fence line where the birds perch and crap. In my own garden I planted out local acorns and other hedgerow species. There were no trees except the ones I found in the stinging nettle patch later on when they grew taller than the nettles. Few juicy cotyledons that emerge in bare soil escape being eaten, and anything planted in bare soil is little more than an invitation and a target.

There was loads of fruit in my garden this year because I was too ill to get out and try to 'protect' it. The birds and squirrels left it alone and it all went to waste. (And all the things I had 'killed' with fortunes of roundup grew back.)

S

[The Natural Philosopher]

It's gone almost as soon as it hits the ground, and it only works on leaves.

So ots perfect for perrenials and may be used in heroic dses to clobber brambles.

never boithered. Water all hard. I use it up to 10x recommended strength for brambles. 2-3x for ordinary stuff. Knocks em out in days, not weeks. paint rather than spray as well. Or 'glove of death'

Any bloody form. Glyphosate is glyphosate. Buy really string off brand stuff.

agricultural places if you have them.

[The Natural Philosopher]

if you mow nettles consistently, they die in a few months.

[The Natural Philosopher]

wrong. Trees get severely retarded if they have to compete with weeds when their root systems are small.

I planted two hornbeam section. One was a new hedge planted in cleared ground with a bit of fertilizer. 6 ft tall after 3 years. Another section was rough planted in an existing hedge: 9 years and barely 5ft.

qed

[Bill]

In message , The Natural Philosopher writes

This place seems to have an interesting and varied stock, plus a lot of spec sheets on their stock. Maybe good for research if nothing else?

[The Natural Philosopher]

use at higher strength, that's all.

Domestic weedkiller is Elfin Safety strength. Useless. 2-10 times that strength is effective. nettles are easy. Brambles are not.

Others are in between

yep. Or at least be severely retarded.

[The Natural Philosopher]

more total bollocks.

Better to let them choose

Total garbage. Birds don't crap acorns, most tree seeds are wind blown.

In my own garden I planted out local acorns

you are pretty useless aren't you?

[The Natural Philosopher]

so spray the bastards with strong medicine.

Best way to clear rough ground is to saw down trees and grub up roots. That's hard. Then strim everything back then when new growth appears glyphosate it to kill, or mow to kill perennials. That leaves annuals and grass and the odd dandelion and daisy.

Then clears where new planting is to go, remove old surface layer and replace with root free soil and a bit of fish blood and bone, and maybe a bit of peat so the roots have an easy time of it to settle in.

Here on heavy clay birch, alder, willow, yew ,maple ad oak all take off straight up. Beech and hornneam and box tend to sulk a year or so before getting going as does hawthorn. Holly sulks 2-3 years or more. A lot depends on how good the roots are.

[Tim Lamb]

In message , chris French writes

One simple trick is to *mulch* the area immediately around your sapling.

You can use a 1m square piece of cheap roofing felt with an X cut in the middle. Turn up some turf to hold the corners down.

Roundup was designed to kill grasses. Anything else is good fortune.

regards

[Peter Scott]

Yep. Bayer glyphosate concentrate. About £11 for what Monsanto charge 40 odd.

Peter Scott

[The Natural Philosopher]

I don't think that is so. It kills any plant. There are better things to kill grasses alone.