new boiler

Once you decide what your system will be then you can phase in the boiler, cylinder etc. Don't just buy a boiler and then think about what you will run off it.

Look at a heat banks, not unvented cylinders.

No problem then, if that is what you want. The existing tank stays. But fit a quick recovery cylinder.

If you went Fortic and a combi, then the existing cold tank can be removed and replaced by the Fortic (assuming enough height in loft), then the airing cupboard is liberated of a space hugging cylinder. Worth thinking about. The Fortic is simple, cheap, space saving and effective, giving a high pressure shower and excellent flow for a bath. There are quick recovery versions of Fortics. See the Range web site. But not cheap.

Indirect combination tank:

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You can fit the combi in the airing cupboard and just connect onto the existing system, having the shower off the water section of the combi. Immediate problems solved for now, and then update/remove the cylinder or install a heat bank, etc.

You will not know which way to go until you assess the mains pressure. This may be upgradeable, and if old maybe worth your while doing so.

Reply to
IMM
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Heat banks reduce boiler efficiency, they run at higher temperatures and therefore restrict condensing.

possiblility

Reply to
Muddy Paws

That's certainly worth doing. When I had a similar property many years ago, I did the heat loss calculations and the loss through the walls was enormous.

Another thing that the MAN boiler does if you have a cylinder arrangement is to give the option of a temperature sensor as opposed to a thermostat on the cylinder. It does some clever stuff with this. If the water temperature is dropping at a lowish rate because little amounts are being used, it doesn't react until the temperature has dropped by a number of degrees. However if it notices a high rate of change - e.g. you turned on the bath, then it fires the boiler up. This avoids the overshoots of temperature that happen with thermostats

MHS sell it with their own label (Strata) as well. I'm not sure why this is done. In fact the translation of the manual is better on the MHS site as well.

Hard to say. I also got a 5 year parts and labour warranty which is another factor.

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

I have an Isar and have been pleased with it so far. It was cheap enough from Jewsons after doing my best 'trade' impression. The user controls are a bit lightweight, but rarely get touched.

The flow from the Isar is great for showering, washing up, running the washing machine etc. although our rarely used bath does take a while. For a regular terrace house (like my 1902) it's the right size. One benefit of the Isar(icos) is the relatively small case, they say you can put it in a 400mm w X 285mm d cupboard.

I most certainly would have wanted one if purely for the technical asthetics, mind you I'd quite like a Mercedes. £600 still seems a lot for a boiler so I could not see the payback for anything fancier. The merchants seem keen on selling the Ferroli range, there'a nominal 50% discount at City plumbing, but that means the costs are close to the Isar/Icos. I have an unused standard flue pack for an Icos/Isar as I changed my mind and flued? vertically instead. If you get an Isar you could have this. I could photocopy the installation and servicing guide for you if that would help your research, not sure if it's available as a pdf.

Nice. Not one I'd considered.

Toby.

Reply to
Toby

It does. Firstly a condensing boiler has a larger heat exchanger than a regular and the efficiencies are v good and very "constant" and predictable. You lack understanding of these devices.

Reply to
IMM

I understand when somebody starts wriggling around when challenged after spouting rubbish.

THat wasn't the comparison as you well know. The comparison was of a condensing boiler connected to a heat bank vs. a condensing boiler connected to radiators each for the purpose of space heating. It was not a comparison between condensing and non-condensing boilers.

Demonstrably, a radiator system can be arranged to allow the boiler to run at much lower temperatures than 54 degrees. A heat bank can't do this and remain useful as an energy store.

In respect of hot water, there is no real advantage vs. a pressurised cylinder, unless 20% less height is really important.

This was all debated at great length, and despite your best efforts at altering the agenda several times on the way, putting up smoke screens and so on, there were no logical conclusions to the contrary. .andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

I understand when I see total amateurs when I see them.

By having larger and more expensive radiators with a payback of 6 years or more if the boiler does take advantage of the larger rad sizes. If it does not then 20-25 years.

A heat bank is an energy store.

You don't know what you are talking about.

A DHW only low pressure heat bank has many advantages over a high pressure unvented cylinder. I won't go into why, just take it as gospel.

It was me attempting to educate you, of which I obviously failed.

Reply to
IMM

No they are not.

Good.

You think you do. Therefore you are.

Certainly did not educate you, as you are as ignorant as ever on this topic.

Reply to
IMM

I've always educated myself through my own research rather than relying on others to provide it. It means that I'm able to obtain a range of views rather than just one when a subject is a matter of opinion, and to check facts at different sources when it is not.

In this area, there are enough sources of trustworthy information that stack up against one another and tell me what I need to know, that fortunately I don't need to rely on single source misinformation.

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

Those are always the most rewarding.

Are you volunteering?

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

You are slow. "When self taught, you will most probably find you have an idiot for a teacher".

Reply to
IMM

How could I have missed that gem?

Did you learn it from the same person who taught you about logical operators?

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

if ( ANDY_KNOWS _NOTHING_ABOUT_HVAC != "YES") { printf("Andy Should Listen To Those Who Know") }

Reply to
IMM

Don't ever go for a programming job, will you.

1) You have the logic wrong from what I assume you intend

2) If this is an attempt at C programming, it wouldn't compile.

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

The logic is there. It will not compile as it is only an If statement with the correct values already known.

Reply to
IMM

How do you know? Do you go boozing with Andy and Geoff?

Reply to
IMM

No, and no, I'm afraid, and I think we should leave it there, since it's a rather fruitless discussion.

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

Clearly you know nothing about C...or heat banks. Please Kernigan and Richie.

Reply to
IMM

It's Kernighan and Ritchie...........

This example works:

main(argc,argv) int argc; char *argv[]; {

int IMM = argc;

IMM = argc;

if ( IMM == 2 ) printf("IMM is not a professional\n");

} **************************************************

%cc -o imm imm.c %./imm heating IMM is not a professional %

.andy

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Reply to
Andy Hall

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