Playground equipment

[Handsome Jack]

I'm treasurer of a village hall management charity. We have a public playground next to the car park. A couple of weeks ago some bozo drove his car through the playground fence and into one of the wooden swings, breaking one of the uprights.

Getting it repaired as if it were just an ordinary building job would maybe cost ?400. But everyone you talk to in the village says "children ... can't take any risks ... health and safety ... very strict regulations .... insurance ... local council inspectors .... got to be done right .... has to be signed off .... thousands of pounds."

Of course, none of them can actually refer you to any regulations. I've googled and found various pages on the RoSPA and HSE web sites, but none of them actually say "You've got to do this ... you've got to do that ..." All they do is talk about "reasonable care", "risk assessments", and similar vague phrases.

Does anybody know what the law states on this? Not what people *think* is the law, or what people *tell* each other is the law ... but what actually *is* the law? Because I'd like to get this playground equipment fixed as soon as I can; it's a bit of a hazard the way it is. And I know that as soon as I involve local councils and inspectors and health and safety geezers, it'll take *months* to get anything done.

[Norman Wells]

The reason people are so careful these days is that we live in a compensation culture. If anything goes wrong, and you have not taken all the precautions you can, someone who is injured will sue you for huge damages claiming that you were negligent and owed them a duty of care.

It pays therefore to have insurance against that happening. Your insurance company will want to know the extent of their risk and will doubtless require that you comply with all their requirements before they will insure you. You have no real choice other than to comply with whatever demands they come up with. You cannot afford to take the risk yourself. They are really the ones to consult as to what is required.

[Roger Mills]

Who provided the original swing - is it proprietary or "home made"? If proprietary, can't you get the supplier to re-build it to its original spec?

Otherwise, how much would a complete new swing cost?

Presumably the car drivers insurance will pay, anyway?

[Robin]

I suggest you start with this guide from Play England:

But if you expect that or anything else to tell you precisely what the law requires for a playground swing in terms that could translate into a job for a carpenter then I think you should prepare to be disappointed.

OTOH I see that it mentions BS EN 1176 (Playground equipment and surfacing) where Part 2 is "Additional specific safety requirements and test methods for swings" which I suspect will provide food for thought (and very possibly raised blood pressure).

[The Natural Philosopher]

Of course. As with all job creation schemes this one starts with hiring a 100k a year consultant (with his own liability insurance) to tell you what the law is.

[Brian Gaff]

Well I don't know either but generally mending old wooden stuff is now frowned upon and the whole thing needs to be renewed and checked. On the other hand if you use a bit of common sense and make sure its no less safe than it was, then I would just fix it. The issue came up around here in a local paper where lookingafter old wooden play gear had not been done and a company who was in charge of said playground got done under HFE regulations. You are right its a minefield which is probably why folk just put in a new device. The other issue of course is the play surface.... Brian

[Nightjar]

According to a playground equipment manufacturer whose factory was next to one of mine, any new or replacement equipment has to comply with BS EN 1176 Playground Equipment and Surfacing. This could mean that the repair has to meet more stringent standards than applied to the original equipment.

BS EN 1177 Impact Attenuating Surfacing Determination of Critical Fall Height may also be relevant.

He recommends this as a good summary of the requirements:

The main laws that affect playgrounds are probably:

The Occupier's Liability Act (1957) as revised in 1984 and as affected by the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

The Disability Discrimination Act 1995

The Construction (Design and Management) Regulations 1994

[Svenne Tvaerskaegg]

Why not just bulldoze the playground flat and surface it with concrete, that would avoid any legal trouble. Or maybe the concrete would have to be overlaid with foam rubber in case someone falls and grazes their knee and you could be sued for that.

Perhaps you could advise the council there is a safety hazard and push the responsibility over to them. Or you could emigrate.

[Ophelia]

I'm treasurer of a village hall management charity. We have a public playground next to the car park. A couple of weeks ago some bozo drove his car through the playground fence and into one of the wooden swings, breaking one of the uprights.

Getting it repaired as if it were just an ordinary building job would maybe cost £400. But everyone you talk to in the village says "children ... can't take any risks ... health and safety ... very strict regulations .... insurance ... local council inspectors .... got to be done right .... has to be signed off .... thousands of pounds."

Of course, none of them can actually refer you to any regulations. I've googled and found various pages on the RoSPA and HSE web sites, but none of them actually say "You've got to do this ... you've got to do that ..." All they do is talk about "reasonable care", "risk assessments", and similar vague phrases.

Does anybody know what the law states on this? Not what people *think* is the law, or what people *tell* each other is the law ... but what actually *is* the law? Because I'd like to get this playground equipment fixed as soon as I can; it's a bit of a hazard the way it is. And I know that as soon as I involve local councils and inspectors and health and safety geezers, it'll take *months* to get anything done.

Jack

===

Does the driver of the car have no responsibility for costs? Hopefully he will be insured!

[Handsome Jack]

I've read it, or at least skipped through it. It seems to be full of meaningless platitudes of no particular value.

Accepted, but I was hoping for at least *some* specific information. For example, one of the 64-dollar questions is: Can the repairs be done by any competent person, or do they have to be done by a specially qualified and/or registered contractor? If so, do they then have to be inspected ("signed off") by some qualified inspector, perhaps in a special bowler hat? Neither your document nor any other I have found answers this very basic and, in principle, answerable question.

Of course, if one asks the manufacturers, they will simply say that no-one but themselves can repair it.

And as for the mention of European regulations .... [explodes]

[Handsome Jack]

Nightjar posted

Many thanks for that; it could be useful, though tainted by its origins.

[Handsome Jack]

Ophelia posted

Yes, he has accepted responsibility. However, I still have to get the repairs done.

[Andy Burns]

There's also a BS-EN 1176 part 2 that's specifically for swings, BSOL only has it as a draft from 2014 though.

[Robin]

If you already knew the legislation to which it refers I wonder why you asked.

We had better agree to differ then as the document seems to me to make it abundantly clear the law does not mandate any such things - not even compliance with the Standards.

I assume you mean European *standards* - which (as the document makes clear) are not hard and fast, legal obligations.

[Handsome Jack]

Of course I don't know the legislation to which it refers. In any case, it is likely that any specific requirements that do exist will be derived from case law and not statute.

Where does it say this?

[Ophelia]

Ophelia posted

Yes, he has accepted responsibility. However, I still have to get the repairs done.

Jack

==

Understood. I just thought it might mitigate some of the cost.

[tabbypurr]

If no Act mentions it, no such requirement exists

I've found them too often terrible, very vague, giving no real clues as to what is and is not legal. It's just another backdoor method of wiping out small businesses.

NT

[Norman Wells]

In that case, you need to ensure that the repairs you arrange to have done will meet all the requirements of your own public liability insurance and won't invalidate it or give rise to complications in future. Since your insurance company will be carrying the risk, they may well have an input into what you have to do. Whatever you have to do can be claimed from the motorist so you won't be out of pocket, and you will be covering your back.

[Robin]

I am not going to go through picking out every relevant reference but hope the following cover the key points:

"There is no specific legislation on play safety in the UK, and undertaking a ?suitable and sufficient? risk assessment is the primary legal requirement." (page 34)

"Compliance with industry standards is not a legal requirement. Counsel?s Opinion, quoted in the previous chapter, confirmed this. It stated that ?the proper approach to British or European standards is not to regard them as laying down a compulsory standard to be followed slavishly in all cases, but as a guideline demonstrating the general consensus as to what would constitute sensible precautions in any given case?." (page 35)

"Many providers regard the standards as being, in effect, a single and absolute requirement in risk assessment. This can lead to disproportionate and expensive corrective responses to minor failures, which have a minimal influence on safety. For example, some providers have wrongly concluded that they needed to remove equipment that has been used for years with no problems, because vertical drop heights are found to be a few centimetres above that specified in the standard. Using the standards as one of the considerations rather than the only tool would make it clear that such actions are not required in these circumstances. " (page 36)

What the law does AIUI require is a written risk assessment. If a risk assessment has not been carried out for the playground - or not for some time - then FWIW I would think is advisable (if not required by the insurers).

[James Wilkinson Sword]

On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 21:56:07 +0100, Handsome Jack wro= te:

Just repair it yourself and save the paperwork. Sounds like a fairly si= mple job, stick a pole in the ground and concrete it in.

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40,000 Americans are injured by toilets each year.