Hi all, not strictly DIY (although there will be an aspect of that towards
the end!) but as there are knowledgable people on here I pormised to ask...
My inlaws currently have a downstair loo (small room, toilet and small
basin) that is next to a larger (maybe 2m square) cloakroom come cupboard.
Plan is/was to knock down the joining wall (not load bearing), fit new
loo + basin and install a shower cubicle.
Having had Dolphin in to quote and having laughed at their 14k quote they
have now had a local plumbing company (much bigger than a one-man-and-his-dog
setup but still a decent local company who they have used before) in to quote
and they have offered to do all but the wall demolishing *and* fitting a
rather whizzy 1500 quid shower setup for 5.5k all in. Much more sensible.
Problem is they also mentioned building regs/permission and suggested that
my inlaws talked to the council...
Council were sent a letter asking for advice. Letter contained a diagram of
the proposals and asked if planning or building control permission was
required. Response from the council has been a very glossy folder containing
some documents that make little sense and a price list that doesn't tie
in with any of the documentation - further attempts at contacting the
council have not produced anything more useful so far!
So, anyone on here got any ideas? There was mention of "building notices"
being needed but not a "full building plan submission" (although a footnote
claims that they still need to pay the plan cost even though they are not
It will be a change of use of sorts - but then a different view on it
would be a simple extension of an existing bathroom! They are now considering
giving up on the idea or going ahead and just not telling the council and
geting on with it.
Any words of wisdom before they go back to the council again next week? Is
this something that people would think would need planning permission? I
realise that the work should be done to current building code but is this
likely to need the 180quid inspection?? Also, the costs seem to be in
relation to the price of the project - does this really mean that they
have to pay an extra 100 quid to have it inspected simply because they
have chosen a rather posh expense shower? Howabout if their "inspected"
shower consisted of a couple of pipes sticking out of the wall - would
they then be free to add the expensive shower later? Could they get the
very basics (knock wall down, plumb in a cheap and nasty shower) done
first to come in below the expensive prices and then upgrade to the whizzy
Darren - confused having read all the paperwork this afternoon!
I can't see why they would need planning permission anyway. Surely this is
just concerned with external appearance, access etc. Just get on with the
job and don't worry about it. I've moved internal non load bearing walls
and never even thought about planning permission.
Two of my neighbours have moved their garden fences adjacent to the pavement
without permission and no action has ever been taken by the council,
although I was refused permission to do the same, simply because I did the
right thing (or so I thought at the time) and applied to the local council.
Thats all well and good until you come to sell. May not be an issue for you
Brother-in-law bought a house that had had some work done on it with out
planing permission - no end of hassle.
How was the unauthorised work detected? I moved an internal wall by 2 feet
to increase the width of my kitchen. The job is first class. Unless a
prospective buyer had access to the original house plans (very unlikely
after 30+ years), there is no way of knowing that any changes have been
made. However, some of my neighbours may have problems when selling, having
moved garden fences up to the pavement without permission. I was refused
permission to do this and now own a 3 foot wide piece of land between my
fence and the pavement which is mainly used as a litter bin by the local
Surveyor noticed that the house was different to all the others that he
had seen in the terrace and raised it on the survey. Solicitor then
chased up and found (or rather, didn't find!) the planning permission.
Or your buyer has a keen surveyor. Anyway, this would be fairly obvious to
anyone who knows any of the other houses on the large estate.
On Sat, 06 Mar 04 21:03:55 GMT, a particular chimpanzee named
email@example.com (dmc) randomly hit the keyboard and produced:
Building Regulations and Planning Permission are two completely
separate things. Unless the building is listed, it's highly unlikely
that PP will be required. A Building Regulations application will be
required for any alteration to a 'controlled service or fitting' (i.e.
There are two distinct ways of submitting a Building Regulations
application; a 'Full Plans' and a 'Building Notice'.
- A 'Full Plans' application, as the name suggests, is where plans are
drawn up and submitted. These are then checked and if they show that
the proposals comply with the applicable requirements, they are
approved. These plans can then be followed on site.
- A 'Building Notice' does not necessarily require plans to accompany
the application, although some details, such as structural
calculations, may be requested by the BCO on site. It is up to the
person carrying out the work to demonstrate to the BCO that it will
comply, usually by a detailed discussion on site.
With both types of application the charge is the same, but for a Full
Plans application, the charge is paid in two parts; a plan deposit
charge and an inspection charge. A Building Notice charge is payable
in full on application (because it generally involves more detailed
For the works you describe, a Building Notice is the better option.
The fee would be based on the estimated cost to carry out work that
would comply with the requirements. The level of the fittings is
irrelevant, so the estimate should be based on bog-standard fittings.
"The fact that no-one on the internet wants a piece of this
[snip excellent descriptions]
Now why can't Ashford council produce a document that says that? I understood
all of that - the council seem to have taken something along those lines
and made it totally unreadable!
Thanks for the input - I've passed it on. At least they will know a little
more about the process when they head down to see the council next week
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