Do British plumbers use silver solder (copper silver phosphor alloy)for joining copper pipe in the uk or are they stuck with the old fashioned methods . May be joints are not soldered as much in the UK and you use quickfit substitutes but if they are soldered what do you use? In Australia silver solder is specified in new buildings (units, flats,domestic complexes, high rises, industrial) for copper pipe (mostly 5% sometimes 2%
IANAP, but I'll answer anyway; for water, gas, and heating in domestic installations it would be unheard of to use silver solder.
If using copper, a "real" plumber would be more likely to use end-feed solder fittings, rather than "yorkshire" solder-ring fittings.
There has been a rise in plastic pipe with push fittings, for ease of use by amateur plumbers and for speed of installation on lower-end new builds. These have probably displaced use of compression fittings by amateurs.
There are also copper push-fit fittings for use on copper pipe, I can't see a real plumber using those except to avoid redecoration on existing installations, an amateur could use them to avoid soldering if working on an existing copper installation.
Leaving apart specialised installations (refrigeration, oxygen supplies etc) What advantages does silver solder have for domestic use?
You loaded your question (are they stuck with the old fashioned methods) so I'll load my answer - I suspect it's a job protection measure pushed into legislature by industry bodies to keep Joe Bloggs from DIYing his own plumbing ...
"Lead free solder" should be used on potable water supplies. Gas, heating etc I don't think is specified.
"Lead free" is a Tin-Silver-Copper alloy but has melting point only just above ordinary leaded 60/40. The term "silver solder" over here would normally refer to brazing with the temperatures above about 450 C, against 200 C or just below for soft soldering.
Don't know but we have been using hard silver solder for years and years and am truly flummoxed if there were a country not using it and tradesmen still using soft solder. It is not in legislature as such but architects and powers that be specify it in their new building and it is normal practice elsewhere. soft solder is still used but usually because it is easier to do than lug the oxy acetylene about.
Lead free soft solder is used over here,mainly by home handymen and rarely by plumbers who usually use hard silver solder(copper silver phosphor alloy)
I looked on the BES website to see what solders they sell
the lead free solders required for potable water are to
BS 219 grade 99C BS EN 29453 alloy #23 BS EN ISO 9453:2006 alloy #401
depending how historic or up to date you want to be
The BSOL site requires silverlight which I normally have disabled, I did enable it to try to view the ISO version, but silverlight crashed, so I looked at the Johnson Matthey product spec instead
The everyday lead-free solder is 99% tin, 1% copper.
So why the bee in your bonnet?
In a word no!
Having said that my brother had a flat in central London where the pipes were brazed - so no Tee joint, just a hole cut in the main run and the branch brazed in. The joins in runs were pipe ends that had been expanded and brazed. It was sufficiently unusual to provoke comment at the time (early 1970's)
I've used 'Colphos' which I think is the braze you are referring to on cooling pipes on my induction furnace and it was a very nice process requiring no flux, but that was a rather special application where the pipes also carried enormous currents.
Andrew
Playing safe as there are some water supplies in ANZ which attack soft solder? UK water supplies are less aggressive - like our spiders, snakes, fish, .................
You are right in your last remark. There is a whole wadge of legislation in Oz to prevent DIY in just about everything. It is the ultimate nanny society.
Lead based solders in the UK are not allowed for potable water but are still widely used for central heating and could be used for hot water.
I think electronics also has to be lead free also now.
Probably lead based solder will disappear altogether in the near future. I think the replacement is mostly zinc.
No. its not for plumbing. Or soldering.
Its for barzing and heating engineers might use it, but not plumbers.
or are they stuck with the old fashioned
Nothing old fashined.
May be joints are not soldered as much in the UK and you use
In the UK lead free solder is specified for POTABLE water plumbing. It has 2-5% silver in it. It is not silver solder, it is not brazing and it is not 'hard solder'.
Shut up and LISTEN.
you have completely confused 'hard soldering' - brazing - with 'soft soldering' and the difference between 'silver solder' and 'solder that has a few percent of silver in it '
Of course all the lead free solder contains a little silver...
which our inverted idiot thinks is 'silver solder'
And all over the English speaking world.
Exactly.
women ...
If anyone has a functioning silverlight/moonlight plugin and a paid (or free via library) membership to BSOL, they might copy and paste the required composition from the BS EN ISO doc I referred to earlier, I'd be willing to bet it doesn't have any silver ...
Lead free solder is about 95% tin with a bit of silver and a couple of other minor ingrediants. Tin's easily confused with zinc, as it's a metal....
An argument with someone who I thought was usually sensibly but does not seem so on this subject.
But not in this instance, there is no legislation about using silver solder just industry recommendation and specs set down by architects,designers and engineers.
And hence catching the house on fire by accident? grin. Brian
Now you are going completely stupid My discussion about solder is silver solder (copper silver phosphor alloy) low silver 2% 5% that is used mainly by plumbers It has never been about soft solder except as a side issue I have not and have never called any form of soft solder with or without silver, lead etc silver solder. That is your construct.
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