OT: you couldnt make it up

pamela wrote:

Remoaning again? Where are your positive suggestions?
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On 21:55 14 Sep 2016, Capitol wrote:

I suggest a general election with party manifestos on what terms Brexit would be pursued and to be taken as a mandate to override all these personal views of what constitutes Brexit.
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writes

Not viable given that Labour hasn’t got a hope in hell of being elected to govt any time soon now that the whole of Scotland has gone SNP.
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There is absolutely no point in attempting to define on what terms Brexit would be pursued. All that would happen is the EU would say No.
Article 50 is a one way street. Once entered there is no going back, no second chance. Brexit means we leave the EU. Exactly what the future relationship is depends on the stance taken by the EU negotiators as much as our own. If the EU Commission is in charge they will happily cut of their noses to spite their faces because they do not bear the consequences. They cannot be voted out. If the member states are in charge we can expect a more pragmatic approach. Either way we leave.
--
bert

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writes

There is a lot of point in making it clear that the EU would be told that Britain will not accept any of their demands with Britain out of the EU and that Britain will stop paying the EU anything, right now.

That's a lie. Article 50 makes it very clear that the country that is leaving is free to apply to join again if it decides to do that.

Not if Britain chooses to decline anything the EU wants.

And there is a real incentive to make it clear to any other country which is considering leaving that they will be on their own.

They can actually. The EP can sack the lot of them, but it has to sack them all so that isnt going to happen.

But it remains to be seen whether May will actually be stupid enough to end up with almost all that Britain gets to wear now and just be out of the EU in name only.
I don't expect that she will be that stupid, but that isnt certain given that she is a remainer and she may decide that there is no possibility of Labour being the govt whatever she does.
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That will be true whatever article 50 says. But Britain has some special favours and opt-outs at the minute. Going back in would be a serious mistake as we'd get NOTHING.
--
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with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
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writes

<Sigh> Said country can re-apply *after* it has left.

Which bit of "as much as our own" do you not understand?

So in effect they can't be voted out - and unlike our own MPs they cannot be voted out by the electorate.

May has appointed a Brexit minister, Davies, who will carry the can.

Don't be too sure. Any rowing back on Brexit would split the Conservative vote and Remainers would flock to either Lab or Lib-dem who would be promising Remain.
--
bert

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writes

I doubt it given that the only ones who would care would be the leavers and they wouldn't be voting Labour or Lib-dem.
The most we might see is UKIP return from the dead but it still wouldn't get enough MPs elected to matter.

IMO they would actually vote Tory if there had been rowing back on BRexit, because there had been rowing back on BRexit.
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On 22:56 15 Sep 2016, bert wrote:

Bert, the European parliament consists of directly elected MEPs voted in by members of the public.
How come didn't you know that? I mean, that's how Nigel Farage got in to the European Parliament. Did you think the EU Commission or EU Council chose to appoint him? *shakes head*

Davies has been given a poisoned chalice. When he fails to deliver, I expect he will be replaced with someone who is more in line with Theresa May's thinking.

The Labour party's current japes will give the conservatives a greater majority in any forthcoming general election, with the result that the votes of Tory Brexiteers may no longer be required to make a Tory majority.
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And those MEPs are elected using the shitty *List* PR system - the *party* candidate at the top of that list can never, in any practical sense, be voted out.
What's more, if an MEP dies/resigns, the slot is filled by the next one from the party list. No by-elections, y'see. After all, from the PoV of Juncker and the rest of the EU top shitheads, it was bad enough having to pretend to consult the people in the first place.
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bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where
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FFS can't you read or follow a straight forward discussion?
--
bert

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On 21:25 15 Sep 2016, bert wrote:

"No going back"? I didn't notice that in the referendum question.

The EU Parliament has appointed Verhofstadt as its lead negotiator who "has been talking frankly about how difficult he plans to make Britain's withdrawal from the European Union". Ummmm.
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<Sigh> That's because we are referring to Article 50

--
bert

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On 22:57 15 Sep 2016, bert wrote:

Article 50 does not say anywhere that a member state can not come back later. That's why you're wrong when you said there is "no second chance".
You wrote elsewhere that the EU parliament is not elected by the people. A school kid knows that not true.
All this propaganda could have come right out of Boris and Gove's copybook. Have you been taking lessons?
There was a German chap who once took part in a fight for Europe and he said if you tell a big lie often enough then people will come to believe it. You're not related are you? :-)

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He was talking about the Commission. You were nodding off when you read his post.
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On 13:32 16 Sep 2016, Tim Streater wrote:

is referring to the EP but not realising that our MEPs are subject to almost exactly the same rules of recall as our MPs.
"in effect they can't be voted out - and unlike our own MPs they cannot be voted out by the electorate"
Wake me up when he wakes up! :-)
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Wrong. Here is the exchange:
========== starts

(So, Bert talking about the Commission - Tim)

(Still Bert talking about the Commission - Tim)

("They" in the above is you referring to the Commission - Tim)
So in effect they can't be voted out - and unlike our own MPs they cannot be voted out by the electorate.
("They" in the above is still Bert referring to the Commission - Tim)
============= ends
It's quite clear. Bert refers twice in the above exchange to the fact that EU Commissioners cannot be voted out by the electorate. The word "they" in the above excerpt refers at all times to the Commission.
--
"It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people
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On 17:35 16 Sep 2016, Tim Streater wrote:

Yikes! It's my mistake for not reading the whole thread. He's quite right in what he says, too. Forgive my jibe.
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Tim Streater wrote:

You're wasting you time with reasoning on a Remoaner. They are incapable of reality or economic comprehension.
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It is hard work explaining things to Remainers, Tim. They're not used to having to think for themselves.
--
bert

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