OT Traffic Crisis

[tabbypurr]

Britain is in crisis with cities losing billions in productivity from time lost in traffic jams.

One of the journeys I do from time to time takes about 10-15 minutes by car . Just once I went by bus, I forget why, it took well over an hour door to door. That's a fair trade if your time's worth 5p an hour and a bus happens to be going from your A to your B or nearby. But it's just not workable fo r most journeys for most of us. Abandoning private cars is not in any way a workable way forward.

Expanding the road network greatly in towns & cities is not in any way a wo rkable way forward. Expanding public transport greatly in towns & cities is not really a workab le way forward, the vast costs of London underground type networks all roun d the country are not really affordable. We're stuck between a rock, a hard place and a sheer cliff.

What options remain? Congestion charges don't solve much, they're merely a way to scam a load mo re money off people that have to go to & from work, buy food etc. Networks of zip lines could move parcels, but only between a limited number of nodes, so could only remove a small percentage of road traffic. Transitioning from car to motorbike is too dangerous for most people to con template. A new 2nd layer of overhead roads is just too expensive, and in most places unworkable. Stacking occupied cars multilayered onto trucks takes too long to load & un load to help to a significant extent, plus would cost, and you can't go abo ve 2 layers anyway due to bridges. More competent traffic management is needed and would help, but isn't going to solve the problem on its own.

That all leaves just 1 option as far as I can see: separate lanes for micro cars, which are barriered off from larger vehicles. 6-8 microcars can sit i n the space of 1 standard car (when still or very slow). They're far cheape r to make & much cheaper to run, and they can be far more fuel efficient, w inning green votes. They won't do everything but are sufficient for a sizea ble percentage of town & city journeys. They would only be permitted to do

20 or 30mph max. FWIW I'd get one if they could be used.

NT

[alan_m]

Sounds like cycle lanes MkII

Throughout the country are most journeys to town or city centres? What about all the places of work on industrial estates that tend to be on the outskirts of towns or cities that are often poorly served by public transport. You propose segregating the road system to these far flung locations as well?

You are assuming that the majority of workers commuting by car live on the doorstep of their place of work whereas they are more likely to commute at least 30 miles a day via major roads into the towns or cities. Lets also clutter up these roads with micro-cars where the top speed is limited to 20 mph! have you seen how much chaos and delay a single cyclist can create during rush hour on these roads?

You cannot park 6 scooters in the space of a single family car so how small are these micro-cars.

[Andy Burns]

I've never set foot on a motorbike, but maybe something like a cross between those 3-wheel gilera fuoco things with a windscreen/roof like a BMW C1 scooter could work?

[Andy Burns]

Doesn't look very far past the concept stage though ...

[Brian Gaff]

There speaks a person with shares in a company making small cars. To be honest, most people who go to work could ork from home and the rest then could use the roads. Brian

[harry]

e lost in traffic jams.

ar. Just once I went by bus, I forget why, it took well over an hour door t o door. That's a fair trade if your time's worth 5p an hour and a bus happe ns to be going from your A to your B or nearby. But it's just not workable for most journeys for most of us. Abandoning private cars is not in any way a workable way forward.

workable way forward.

able way forward, the vast costs of London underground type networks all ro und the country are not really affordable.

more money off people that have to go to & from work, buy food etc.

er of nodes, so could only remove a small percentage of road traffic.

es unworkable.

unload to help to a significant extent, plus would cost, and you can't go a bove 2 layers anyway due to bridges.

ng to solve the problem on its own.

rocars, which are barriered off from larger vehicles. 6-8 microcars can sit in the space of 1 standard car (when still or very slow). They're far chea per to make & much cheaper to run, and they can be far more fuel efficient, winning green votes. They won't do everything but are sufficient for a siz eable percentage of town & city journeys. They would only be permitted to d o 20 or 30mph max. FWIW I'd get one if they could be used.

Work from home? Many people could do this but "need" to be supervised.

[Nightjar]

...

Which is OK if you only want to travel in cities, or want to have more than one vehicle. Neither applies to me.

Autonomous cars with interconnected communications could put a lot more cars into the same road space.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The answer is : remote working. Stay at home., strap on te virtyual reality headset and get down to some brain surgery.

[tim...]

I think you'll find that suggesting the average drive by a commuter is 30 miles is way over the top

tim

[Steve Walker]

Yes, there needs to be a big push for companies to monitor their office workers by results instead of actually having them present in an office to keep an eye on them. The tax system could help with this, with increased taxes on commercial office space and corresponding tax breaks to encourage home working. There would need to be exeptions for work that cannot be done from home for practical reasons - for instance I sometimes work in companies where security requires that work is only done on their secure, isolated networks in locked rooms and paperwork may not leave the room and no-one without clearance may see it.

No-one (except by choice due to health, caring requirements or similar) should work from home all the time though. Physical, face to face interaction is vital in keeping mentally healthy and being able to just chat while scribbling notes and ideas on a sheet of paper can be far faster and easier than their technological equivalents.

Personally I'd opt for three days a week at home and two in the office. I'd save on wear and tear, cost and frustration of commuting, the roads would be less congested and I'd also gain an hour of spare time/overtime each home day. The companies I work at could probably halve their office space. I could also decide to have a lie in and then work the lost time in the evening (when the company office is locked up for the night).

SteveW

[alan_m]

That was a guestimate but the RAC suggest 9 to 11 miles per trip or an average of 20 miles per day

(page 11)

[newshound]

Seems to me that congestion charging works.

Park and ride is pretty effective in some of my local cities (Bath, Gloucester, Cheltenham, Oxford). But of course the radial distances are not large.

I can see merits in your "microcar" argument; perhaps they could eventually be self driving, and perhaps available for hire at park and ride type hubs to meet Colin's objection.

Can't help thinking it might be time for a "width" criterion too. Pulled into a parking slot at Gloucester Royal yesterday between two large 4x4s before I realised that, at best, I would only be able to use one door, and that at a squeeze. They were both parked within a couple of inches of the white lines on "my" side and with less than 6 inches on the other side. (Or maybe charge them for 1.5 slots, which was what they were using).

[Nige Danton]

Isn't that just deferring the same problems for a few years? How about Elon Musks proposal to resolve traffic congestion - build a tunnel network under the city and cars (with their occupants) are transported from A to B on individual system controlled skates. The idea iis predicated on Musk being able to significantly reduce the cost of tunnel construction. He has formed a tunnelling company called "The Boring Company" to develop the ideas.

[Nightjar]

... or bring the parking spaces sizes up to modern recommendations, to suite the wider vehicles that side impact protection requires.

[Tjoepstil]

depends where you live.

round here 70+ is not uncommon.

[tabbypurr]

icrocars, which are barriered off from larger vehicles. 6-8 microcars can s it in the space of 1 standard car (when still or very slow). They're far ch eaper to make & much cheaper to run, and they can be far more fuel efficien t, winning green votes. They won't do everything but are sufficient for a s izeable percentage of town & city journeys. They would only be permitted to do 20 or 30mph max. FWIW I'd get one if they could be used.

the difference is it's practical

What matters is that a significant percentage are within towns & cities, th ose are microcarable.

I can't think of many industrial estates that are far flung. It's upto gove rnment what they do & don't segregate lanes for. I daresay, much like the c ycle network, it would expand over time.

I don't assume any such thing

I'll wait to hear how reducing vehicle size and not reducing top speed incr eases cluttering on roads.

When segregated from car traffic, none

If you look at historic microcars & current foreign microcars there's no sh ortage of variation in design & size.

NT

[tabbypurr]

I have no shares in any microcar company

if that were true employers would save money by doing that.

NT

[tabbypurr]

ime lost in traffic jams.

icrocars, which are barriered off from larger vehicles. 6-8 microcars can s it in the space of 1 standard car (when still or very slow). They're far ch eaper to make & much cheaper to run, and they can be far more fuel efficien t, winning green votes. They won't do everything but are sufficient for a s izeable percentage of town & city journeys. They would only be permitted to do 20 or 30mph max. FWIW I'd get one if they could be used.

A budget towncar works for a lot of people

At high speed probably, in clogged cities no. They also aren't mass deploya ble or affordable. Let's hope their issues get solved one day

NT

[tabbypurr]

That's been talked about for a long time. There are reasons why employers don't do it.

NT

[tabbypurr]

It doesn't work when there is currently no workable alternative. You can't opt to not go to work, school or buy food.

And in many cases it's not workable.

Cars that do 70mph need a lot of crash protection, and that's making them fatter. You don't need all that around town.

NT