OT Nuclear failure UK

As I predicted the Welsh nuclear power station project to be abandoned. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/11/hitachi-cancel-plans-nuclear-power-station-angelsey-wales
Nuclear power is bollix. Hinkley will fail too.
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What's odd about that article is that it just talks about "Britain’s ambitions for a nuclear renaissance (being) in tatters."
Surely this is a problem for the whole world, not just the UK.
There is nothing unique about the UK market here.
It Nukes aren't viable at strike price that is acceptable to agree to, in a competitive market when alternative fuels are available, in the UK, then they aren't going to be viable anywhere in the world at that price.
And there's no justifiable reason why we should pay more than those alternative fuels, just because it's a Nuke, None whatsoever!
tim
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Not with France.

Yes there is with so few nukes for a first world country.

That’s bullshit, most obviously with France.

Even sillier than you usually manage, and that’s saying something.
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they are reaching end of life, they will be looking to replace them soon.

Agreed, but that's not the point
There's' nothing unique about the UK wrt available competitiive choices for new generation.
Our uniqueness is simply in needing them now, not in 10 years time

That's a pre-installed base.
the issue is new installation
tim
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Or with China or India either.

Its not that black and white.

Ditto.

Yes it is with that mindless hyperventilation about that particular one being canned, if it is. It might well be canned because Toshiba has given up on nukes but that only matters when you only have two nukes being constructed and the constructor of one of them gives up on making nukes.

Yes there is with just two nukes under construction and both being done by foreigners.

The other uniqueness is only having two under construction and one being done by an operation that has given up on nukes.

And with India and China in spades.

Not with India and China.

And both India and China are still doing plenty. And neither of them are stupid enough to fart around with strike prices either.
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On 14/01/2019 08:40, tim... wrote:

Nucler prices are not set by anthing intrinsic to the technology.
They are set byu reglautory overburden and by interest rates and to some extent by how long the construction can be delayed.
In asia and in france in years gone by, nuclear is and was the cheapest form of electriciry possible,
Gas interests are directly against nuclear interests. Trillions are at stake to stop nuclear replacing gas. Go figure.

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Because we somehow managed to build Nukes for a fraction, in real terms, of today's price.
Why is that?

Gas will run out, and in any case needs to be preserved for the more useful purpose of domestic space heating
We have to replace it with something
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On 14/01/2019 11:26, tim... wrote:

I already told you why. Regulatory overburden and interest rates.

Er no. Electricvity is FAR more useful for space heating.

Electricity. Gas is only really useful as a chemical feedstock if your leccy is nuclear and chaeap enough.

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um interest rates are zero
they were near 10% when the last lot were built
that should makes the cost go down, not up
tim
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On 14/01/2019 13:28, tim... wrote:

Really! Where can I get my hands on some interest free money?

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On 14/01/2019 13:28, tim... wrote:

You try borrowing at zero percent to build a nuke.
Anyway I dodnt say that these were the issues NOW I said that these were the issues.
Interstet rates are what stopped another Sizewell being built plus cheap N. Sea gas.
Today its regulatory ratcheting
'concerns' about 'safety' are used to drive up construction cists to the point where the plant ceases to be commercially viable
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On 14/01/2019 13:28, tim... wrote:

True, but investors need return on investment (and that is fairly generous in this case).
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Maybe because we always insist on building a "new Generation" rather than just building something which is known to work.

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bert

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Far less regulation on what could be built, no attempt to make them cheap to dismantle when they have passed their useby date, getting commercial operations to build them instead of just putting it out to tender and doing it that way etc.

Not if there are enough nukes to heat the houses using the electricity generated with nukes.

Nukes.
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Thought you believed in the free economey?
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On Monday, 14 January 2019 11:09:46 UTC, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

.
ns-nuclear-power-station-angelsey-wales

??s

,

.
Nuclear is only cheap because they don't take into account the decommission ing cost. Pigeons coming home to roost on that one in France right now. Which is one of the reasons Hinkley Point will fail. (French nuclear indust ry will go bust.) Maybe the whole country the way things are looking right now.
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The usual twaddle from harry. The £92.50/MWh at Hinckley *includes* the decommissioning cost.
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That's because they do include it now
but 92.50/MWh is not cheap
that's the point
presumably the Japs pulled out because HMG, having got flack for agreeing that price last time, decided that the couldn't pay anything close to it next time
tim
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On 14/01/2019 20:17, tim... wrote:

(i) it is compared with double that for wind and triple for solar.
(ii) the reason it is that high is on account of EU nuclear regulatory policy which is designed to eliminate nuclear and coal so that russian gas gets the whole market.
(iii) If we ever get a brexit, we will be free to imnplement our own regulatory policy, or somewhat MORE free anyway.

Whta haqs always happ[ened is that companies look at the market and it looks good, and then they get dleivered te 14 tinnes of regulatory bullshit that they have to comply with, and say 'and what guarantees are there that after meeting every one of thses 1.5million regulatory checks, the UK government will not do what Germany did, and change the rules?
And the answer is, there are none.
Then they walk away.

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On 15/01/2019 10:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Personally I think it is the planning process rather than the final regulation by ONR which is the problem, not least because it keeps the project high profile in the press for a long time.
If I understand correctly, the HPC deal is designed to protect the EDF investor from the "Germany" problem.
But I do find it slightly remarkable that the far east shows such interest in the UK market. They must be *very* confident that we are going to want the electricity long term, and that even in the event of a Fukushima type incident that people would accept re-starting of other plant. I suppose it is partly driven by "a foot in the door". If only governments in the west could think on the half-century timescale.
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