OT. Migration and housing.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/why-mass-immigration-explains-the-housing-crisis/
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Really? I thought it was the greedy bar stewards who want to build stuff that only rich people can afford to buy. Brian
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On 18-Mar-18 8:35 AM, Brian Gaff wrote:

Harry only wants to see a single cause that he can blame on people he doesn't like.
Two major factors are that we are living longer and fewer people are living in one dwelling - an average of two per dwelling today, as compared to five in the 1950s. The problem is also not that there are not enough houses; there are around 5.2% more places to live than households wanting wanting to live in them. The problem is that the housing and the households are not in the same places.
London is one of the worst places for a shortage of housing, partly because of a lack of suitable places for development and partly because its population is growing at around twice the national average. Immigration does play a big part there. A lot of people, particularly people in their thirties with families, are moving out of London but even more are moving in; principally highly qualified people in their 20s, both British and foreign, coming to London to work. However, that doesn't fit the profile that Harry or the person who wrote the article want to blame.
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On 18/03/2018 09:38, Nightjar wrote:

I do believe if someone else had posted the link it would have given the subject far more credibility.

Your post is the extreme antithesis of Harry's. Do you have any reason to question any of the statistics quoted in the article? (Apart from disliking the conclusions than can be drawn).
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On 18/03/18 09:57, Fredxx wrote:

OK:
Net immigration (Office of National Statistic figures) between 1998 to 2017 was 4.5 million. This is not an insignificant figure in 20 years. UK population in the same period went from 58.5 to 66 million.
In the same period an estate of flats (one of which I bought in 1995 for £45k) are now valued at £235k (identical flat just along, 2017 Land Registry data).
Sure, there are other factors (irresponsible mortgage lending, higher divorce rates [related to the PP's note that occupancy factors are lower] leading to further market pressure) but it would be very hard to claim the massive increase in population and consequent demand has no link with the value of limited housing.
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On 18-Mar-18 9:57 AM, Fredxx wrote:

Would anybody else, without the same anti-immigration agenda, have posted it without the sort of caveats that I have raised?

I have no reason to doubt the figures. I am simply pointing out that the idea of a housing shortage is a regional, rather than a national, concept, and that, while immigration cannot help but affect the demand for housing, it is not the only factor and may not be the most important. Even if the population level had remained static since the 1950s, the occupancy level would mean that we would now need two and a half times as many dwellings to house the same number. Life expectancy for men has also risen by 19% since 1951 and by 16% for women, also increasing demand for housing.
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 16:55:35 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

It's not just housing the migrants (EU or otherwise) are putting pressure on. It's just about every form of infrastructure you can think of. I don't blame them, not for a second, they're only trying to better their lives; but this has been very badly managed by those in government who surely must have seen it coming - yet did NOTHING.
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 09:38:37 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

That's funny. ISTR people like you trying to BS us that all the more qualified people would be deserting London in droves if we voted to leave the EU!
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On 18-Mar-18 11:37 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

My concern would be more that their jobs would be leaving the country and they would follow. However, the figures I have been using only go up to 2015, so any post referendum effect won't show.
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 17:00:47 +0000, Nightjar wrote:

There's still hope, then? LOL! ;->
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On 18/03/2018 11:37, Cursitor Doom wrote:

The claim is if we leave the EU not if we vote to leave. We have yet to leave so you can't claim that it wont happen.
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On Sunday, 18 March 2018 09:38:43 UTC, Nightjar wrote:

If there were no migration, the population would have fallen. There would be plenty of houses for everyone and they'd be cheaper. Only the Guardian comes out with crap like yours.
http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migrants-in-the-uk-an-overview/ Where do you suppose all the millions of migrants are living?
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 07:54:34 -0700 (PDT), harry

Migrants are paying taxes, they are coming here and "hitting the ground running". They support the NHS and buy/ pay for housing.
The true scum to b lame are babies and toddlers, they never paid a penny into the system and are the prime reason for house buying.
These leeches will suck the country dry for years, and when they come of age will fill every prison in Britain.
Sent them back, thats what I say. It may be a trifle difficult with teens, but with a good set of tyre levers......
AB
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On 18/03/2018 15:26, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

They also pay taxes so in-work benefits can be paid out.
You also have it spot on, they pay for housing, hence stoking demand.
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On Sunday, 18 March 2018 15:26:59 UTC, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Most migrant don't pay any tax. Most money they earn is sent back "home". They are here to keep the general wages low and property prices high and rising so the likes of Tony Bliar can benefit from their property portfolio.
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 09:50:08 -0700 (PDT), harry

We all pay tax.
Apart from scum like Mogg, the hero of the Brexiters who has his Cayman Islands buisiness to help his ilk to channel their wealth from the UK.
To live in the UK costs money, to earn money you pay tax. If you are aware of tax fiddles by migrants or anyone else do your country a favour you nasty bigoted scumbag and report it to the appropriate authourity, and not uk.d-i-y
AB
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On 18/03/2018 17:10, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

Name calling seems to be a Remoaner trait.
You've already lost what ever argument you think you might have had.
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https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/brexitinc/james-cusick-adam-ramsay-crina-boros/revealed-tory-mps-using-taxpayers-cash-to-fund-sec
He is an expense fiddling liar and cheat who is happy to channel the UK's money into his own business.
By anyones standards this person is scum of the lowest order.
Sadly voters deserve scum like that, simply because they are hoodwinked by the idea that instead of outside business interests being a conflict of interest and a sign that the scumbag is just a greedy individual unhappy with his MP's salary and pension package, they are some kind of ongoing research vehicle only raking it in out of the goodness of their hearts.
People that fiddle expenses are thieving lying scum. They should be sacked and if it's public money, imprisoned.
Child molesters, rapists and other filth are pilloried, why should Mogg not escape his due's?
AB
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On 18/03/2018 20:23, Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp wrote:

If you believe rules have been broken then shouldn't you do something about it?
In true tradition of a Remoaner you resort to abuse.
The clearest possible admission there is no argument.
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Currently I am a little tied up with one or two other items that I want interaction from the UK government on.
I am also practical, to try to make a criminal complaint would be difficult and I have every confidence that it would never even get his attention.
Trying to do anything through the government isn't worthwhile either, any party with Johnson in the cabinet has lost the plot anyway, and I would be expecting members of the same cabal to act against him.

I never put it forward as an argument. It's fact.
AB
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