OT ish incandescent bulb ban

I have several (expensive) lamps that use the transformer fed 12v (IIRC) small bulbs that are common now, you cannot replace these with energy saving bulbs, ditto my dimmed lights I think. Am I expected to scrap all these fittings when the new laws come in or are there likely to be ways of dealing with it?

Reply to
M
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The government expects everybody to scrap all their light fittings, to create even more waste.

Stock up _now_ with dozens of your 12v bulbs, and bulbs for your dimmable fittings.

Reply to
Frank Erskine

Following up to Frank Erskine

over the last few years, more and more lights have used 12v bulbs or small mains bulbs, this move should have been made by insisting all *new* fittings took low energy bulbs.

Reply to
M

You can use LED bulbs in those. If the resulting light level is inadequate, add some hidden background lighting too. Presumably 12v LEDs will be available by then - if not they can be made.

NT

Reply to
meow2222

I don't recall low voltage bulbs being in this 'ban', if there is then there will *have to be* an exemption for motor vehicle, leisure, industrial, marine and mobility use etc. - and if that is the case I'm sure that someone will soon be along with adapter kits!

Reply to
Jerry

Following up to Jerry

I think you are right, more research tells me my 12v halogen(?) lamp standards are not included. My flush fit mains small bulbs I'm happy to scrap as they blow all the time and a are a bugger to change due to poor design.

Looks like my bespoke dimmer switches of 25 years age are out though :-(

Reply to
M

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:15:05 +0000 someone who may be M wrote this:-

Did government force you to buy the lamps with 12V bulbs? If they did you would have a justifiable reason to complain.

Dimable compact fluorescent lamps are becoming available. Not all styles are available yet by a long way, but

are some of the ones available.

Compact fluorescent lamps are available in ever smaller sizes,

being an example, though LEDs are probably a better bet .

LED lamps are also becoming available in small sizes.

is an example.

Anyway, phasing out of Swan-Edison style lamps will undoubtedly start with GLS lamps, then moving on to the more specialised ones.

Despite the claims of the usual suspects the sky is not about to fall in. Getting rid of Swan-Edison style lamps is important, but they are not trying to do it at a snap of their fingers. If anything they are doing it too slowly.

Reply to
David Hansen

I suspect this is one of those little idiocies that will get forgotten as the worldwide millennium depression simply makes us have more important things to worry about.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

I'll repost the links to the proposed EU legislation:

Press release:

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'Technical' document:

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Reply to
unopened

Following up to David Hansen

Eh? What sort of logic is that, they are on sale.

Reply to
M

Oh... and to quote from the technical document:

"Halogen lamps with special lamp caps (like the ones shown in the table above or the linear lamp shown in section II.1) do not exist with energy classes better than C. They are needed on the market as there are luminaires that can only take such lamps (for example the 150W or

300W floor-standing uplighters). Therefore further improvements can only be achieved by imposing requirements on the luminaires themselves, which the Commission is planning to do in a measure currently under preparation and to be tabled in 2009."

My reading of the 'technical' document is that 12V halogen may well become unavailable by 2016 if they can't meet the requirements of energy efficiency class 'B'.

regards,

Sid

Reply to
unopened

The are forcing us to buy CFLs.

Which is a cause for complaint.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Well, not entirely forced...an apologist might point out you could live in the dark, or use candles, or oil lamps, or even gas lamps (if you can get the mantles- the H&S crowd would love the Thorium), and there are standard fluorescents, LEDs, halogens, and I suppose arc lamps of various kinds, and possibly electroluminescent, and for the more far out, tritium powered - so a politician would say you have a very wide choice of lighting styles available to you - you just can't easily buy non-halogen tungsten incandescent GLS. And I don't think there's any prohibition on making them yourself, even though that's not entirely practical.

(Please note tongue planted firmly in cheek)

Sid

Reply to
unopened

snipped-for-privacy@mail.com gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying:

Yeh, easily - camping gas lanterns are still around, of course...

The mantles aren't radioactive any more, though.

Reply to
Adrian

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:21:17 +0000 someone who may be M wrote this:-

Correct logic.

Buyer beware.

Reply to
David Hansen

They would have to ban all car bulbs too. Unlikely

The BBC has an article on it where they again hold Edison as the inventor of the incandescent light while totally ignoring Swan. I emailed them suggesting they use a different source than the American Childrens Encyclopedia

Reply to
Alang

They had already been on sale long before the government were conned^h^h^h^h^h^h influenced into introducing the ban. The buying public could not be expected to forecast what measures our politicians would introduce in the future.

At least it's just the mains voltage GLS filament bulbs bulbs that are affected so far. 12V halogens should be safe for a while yet. But it might not be wise to buy any new halogen light fittings.

Reply to
Mike Clarke

By my reading of the proposed EU legislation 'a while yet' means up to

2016. It's unclear if non-infra-red coated halogens (which presumably would be energy efficiency class C) would be available after then. It does give halogen lamp manufacturers a while to get the efficiencies up, and for suitable alternatives to be found.

Cheers,

Sid

Reply to
unopened

It should be no concern of the 'government' at all.

This lot, however, are proud of all the legislation that they concoct, and will no doubt be only too willing to enforce more stuff from the EU...

Reply to
Frank Erskine

IR Reflective envelope halogen has been around a while, as you say just not popularly available. Typically 42W lamp repaces a 50w LV lamp.

My reading of the draft puts IR reflective lamps into Class B efficiency and would hope within next 8 years IR halogens are much more common.

LV halogen is considerably more efficient than mains voltage halogen and believe the legislation is looking to get rid of K series mains linear halogen lamps used in outdoor floodlights and `torchiere` style floor lamps. Vic Roberts on sci.engr lighting I know is not a fan of these types of fittings. More efficient IR reflective envelope versions of these lamps do exist.

Also looks like GU10 mains voltage MR16 halogens are also being targeted, which frankly is fair enough, their rotten on efficiency, beam control and life span issues.

What is not being targeted is Low Voltage Halogen lighting including MR16s and capsule lamps which have many years service to go yet, though anything may happen in other source development in next 8 years,a considerable installed base of this type of lighting will be remaining to be serviced.

Would advise, as always have that GU10 lighting is a waste of time money and effort, but that decent LV lighting will continue to be supported for the forseeable future.

LED is not a drop in replacement in most circumstances.

As to politicians having a clue about what their doing, may I point out my previous rant about "renewable lighting" and my Green Party Member for the Scottish Parliament, Robin Harper M.S.P. being unable to answer any questions about the lighting load of the building he works in despite supposedly sitting on the internal committee advising on Energy Efficiency of the Parliament building.

Suggest that people put on their best Paxman look of dis-belief and ask their local public servants for a comprehensive answer:

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Reply to
Adam Aglionby

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