OT Interesting link.

http://nowiknow.com/the-largest-man-made-accidental-explosion/?source=outbrain

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" Roughly one square mile around the blast area was destroyed and rendered inhabitable".....
Nice one Dan Lewis
Jim K
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On 07/04/2014 13:54, JimK wrote:

Presumably, prior to the explosion, it was uninhabitable?
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Yes there is another pis smelling further down as well. There was also that huge gas and chemical explosion at an American port as I recall from history. that caused huge loss of life. Again, a fire onboard a ship was the cause.
Brian
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Well, 8 days (I-131). But if you get a big dose initially (and it then decays away) can that leave you with problems that manifest later if you had a *growing* thyroid at the time?
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On 07/04/14 18:54, Tim Streater wrote:

The short answer is that I really do not know.
and no one else does either.
All you can do is look at stats, and the stats show in studies from Chernobyl mainly that the thyroid cancers peak after a couple of years and then vanish.
The oncologists I talked to said that radiotherapy increases chances of a totally unrelated cancer by 30% over a 15 year period, and that's about it for very heavy peak does delivered to treat the cancer in question.
So there is some evidence of some issues from relatively heavy doses turning up a decade+ later, but the effect is small.
The current wisdom is that if you don't get cancer pretty immediately, you probably wont get it at all. IIRC the Hiroshima studies showed the majority of people who died, died within a year - thyroid, bone and other cancers. And they were a tiny fraction of those who got killed instantly or died of massive radiation posting in a couple of days.
Same sort of pattern at Chernobyl. 50 dead more or less instantly; 3000 thyroid cancers from the iodine because they didn't issue pills or evacuate, and after that sod all. No deformed deer wandering around, happy squirrels munching nuts. No long term cancer spikes that were statistically significant, no abortions or deformed babies. That's thalidomide, not radiation:-(
Its because such facts as there are are SO at odds with what people think is the truth that I always go digging.
And I can only conclude that we were bombarded with a tissue of lies in the 70s designed to make us distrust nuclear power, hate and fear nuclear weapons, and distrust our own governments far more than they actually merited.
And when you ask Cicero's famous question 'Cui bono'?? I am afraid the finger points directly at those russkies.
And when I look at who benefits from continued propaganda about renewable energy climate change and nuclear power, I am afraid the finger points largely in very similar directions. The propaganda techniques are identical - constantly repeating the lies and half truths, and the self righteous indignation the appeals to emotion rather than fact, the use of the precautionary principle, the Big Lie, - its all identical stuff to what the Marxists were using in Agitprop back in the 70s.
I am not saying its totally that way, because international socialism is no longer a particularly Russian movement, but they are not unhappy to help it destroy people who compete with them and are a natural market for their gas.
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On 07/04/2014 19:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

With radio active iodine used for thyroid treatment (e.g. for Graves disease), there have been a number of papers which suggest that too low a dose makes cancer more likely. For lots of reasons, using the minimum dosage has been seen to be desirable. Some were surprised that at the bottom end it appears to have a worse track record.
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On 07/04/2014 19:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Eur J Epidemiol. 2014 Apr 5. [Epub ahead of print] Thyroid cancer incidence in Chornobyl liquidators in Ukraine: SIR analysis, 1986-2010. Ostroumova E1, Gudzenko N, Brenner A, Gorokh Y, Hatch M, Prysyazhnyuk A, Mabuchi K, Bazyka D. Author information Abstract
We studied thyroid cancer incidence in a cohort of 150,813 male Chornobyl clean-up workers ("liquidators") from Ukraine by calculating standardized incidence ratio (SIR) using national cancer statistics. Follow-up began on the liquidator's registration date with the Chornobyl State Registry of Ukraine (the earliest date was 05. 05. 1986) and continued through December 31, 2010, date of thyroid cancer diagnosis, date of death, or date of last known vital status, whichever came first. There were 196 incident thyroid cancers in the study cohort with an overall SIR of 3.50 [95 % confidence interval (CI) 3.04-4.03]. A significantly elevated SIR estimate of 3.86 (95 % CI 3.26-4.57) was observed for liquidators who had their first clean-up mission in the Chornobyl zone in 1986, when levels of external and internal exposure to radiation were highest; the SIR estimates for later calendar years of first clean-up mission, while significantly elevated, were lower. The SIR estimates were elevated throughout the entire follow-up period but were especially high 10-18 years after the accident: 4.62 (95 % CI 3.47-6.15) and 4.80 (95 % CI 3.78-6.10) for the period 1995-1999 and 2000-2004, respectively. Our findings support the growing evidence of increased thyroid cancer rates among Chornobyl liquidators. Although this could be partially attributed to increased medical surveillance, the observed pattern of SIR increase warrants further investigation of a potential contribution of radiation exposure to the elevated thyroid cancer rates in this large population.
PMID: 24705729
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24705729
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Exactly.

And for the 40 years since then we've been lied to by the likes of Greenpeace and FotE about matters nuclear.

That Melanie Philips had an opinion piece in the Times today, bemoaning the loss of free speech around gay marriage, climate change, and similar "liberal"issues. I was a bit puzzled because I'd always thought she was a raving leftie and just the type to insist that one was no longer allowed - by law - to disagree with climate change.
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On 07/04/2014 23:24, Tim Streater wrote:

You're about 20 years out of date. She's been a raving rightwinger since the 90s.
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On 07/04/14 22:32, Clive George wrote:

I think she's just been raving.
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wrote:

Usual drivel from TurNiP The animals you mention are only short lived anyway. ie they don't live long enough for cancer/other diseases to develope. The deformed bit is a myth. The reason there are no cancer "spikes" in the people population is that they were evacuated. There will be plenty out there with shortened lives which we will never be told about.
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Clearly unhinged.
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Usual drivel from harry. Of course small animals can get cancers. We lost a cat to it.

Of course it's a myth. But the sort of myth that gets put about, a bit like "frankenstein foods".

They weren't given iodine doses to displace the I-131 though.

Well you were, actually. In the WHO Report.
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Not looked at this, but was that not the nuclear test where the actual explosion was a lot bigger than intended due to fission of the materials in the bomb not actually intended to be part of it?
Brian
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On 07/04/2014 15:11, Brian Gaff wrote:

Nope. A munitions ship explosion in Halifax, Nova Scotia in 1917. Not really the largest accidental explosion in history; around 2,400 tonnes of munitions, compared to 13,910 tons (presumably short tons) aboard USS Mount Hood in 1944, or around 6,000 tonnes at Port Chicago, also in 1944, but as lots of people had collected to watch the fire that preceded it, by far the greatest loss of life.
Colin Bignell
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On 07/04/14 15:41, Nightjar wrote:

"Mount Hood, anchored in about 35 feet (11 m) of water,[1] had exploded with an estimated 3,800 tons of ordnance material on board."
a mere firecracker mate.
or around 6,000 tonnes at Port Chicago, also in

"In all, the munitions on the pier and in the ship contained the equivalent of approximately 2,000 short tons (1,800 t) of TNT.[26]"

..The man who usually gets his facts wrong..

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On 07/04/2014 16:25, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I took the figure from this site, which seems to have given her displacement in error.
http://djkuba.tripod.com/index-9.html
However, even 3,800 tons is a lot more than the Halifax explosion.
I'm not sure about the wisdom of naming a munitions ship after a volcano.

Plus the 4,600 tons of explosives on the SS E. A. Bryan, docked alongside.
Colin Bignell
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On 07/04/2014 15:41, Nightjar wrote:

OK, so if the SS Richard Montgomery sunk in the Thames Estuary happens to go up some time, it won't produce quite such a big bang, since it's supposed to have only about 1500 tons of explosives on board. Nice to know.
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On 07/04/2014 16:45, Clive Page wrote:

The main hazard from that will probably be the tsunami, which has variously been estimated at between 1m and 5m high.
Colin Bignell
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