OT. - HS2

On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:46:09 +0100, The Natural Philosopher

This was a question for Dave since he was complaining about NIMBYs.
However your response is raises an interesting point. I very much doubt that anyone would be made rich for life or get anywhere near £10m compensation for having a railway through their property. If you (or I) would only be willing in this case why should anyone else have to endure the railway without adequate compensation?
And I am firmly of the opinion that the people who shout "NIMBY" the loudest are purely doing so because they are relieved that it's not their backyard being ruined.
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(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
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On 19/08/13 12:56, Mark wrote:

The point is what value would I place on having to move away, see my whole house and the place I have worked on for 20 years destroyed. 10m would enable me to get someone else in, recreate it elsewhere and landscape it and not leave me out of pocket at all, and fact well in pocket.
Nobody minds if they are adequately and realistically compensated, but they are not, because it would make the project even more insanely expensive than it already is, and thebusiness case already is predicated on absurdly optimistic cost and revenue assumptions.
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(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 12:28:27 +0100, Mark wrote:

by

changes

No I wouldn't be happy and if I really didn't like it I'd move and fight for every penny of compensation I could get.
Indeed I might just get the house valued now and occasionally over the next few years to build up evidence of it's current value should the mine that might appear a couple of valleys away does actually happen.
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Is this phosphate?
Farming grapevine says the Russians might be about to pull out of the European cartel. Price might drop.

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Tim Lamb

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On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:08:02 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

No, zinc.
http://www.mincoplc.com/projects/North%20Pennine%20Project.html
Minco have been talking it up recently, the first few boreholes have found "interesting" levels of mineralisation but they need to drill more holes to really find out what's down there before they start digging big holes...
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Ah! You have until October this year to register your mineral rights with the Land Registry:-)

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Tim Lamb

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On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:29:29 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

No chance, the Land Registry record has:
"The mines and minerals together with ancillary powers of working are excepted with provision for compensation in the event of damage caused thereby."
Having had a dig about on the LR site, just in case, we'd need documentary evidence of our right to the mines and minerals. That doesn't exist.
The land around here was forfieted by James Radcliffe, 3rd Earl of Derwentwater after the 1715 uprising. In 1735 George II granted the estates and mineral rights to the Greenwich Hospital. The GH issued mining and mineral leases to a range of companies from then on. Who actually has the rights I don't know(*) but it ain't us...
(*) Presumably Minco have a lease.
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Oh well:-)
Redland Aggregates ->LaFarge->Tarmac retained ours when they sold the freehold to us.
On land elsewhere, as far as I know, we have the rights but who knows what the Church Commissioners, inclosure acts or local lordships amount to:-(

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Tim Lamb

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On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 08:44:16 +0100, Tim Lamb wrote:

If the rights are yours then nothing (possibly...) but if you only have a lease...
TBH I'd be very surprised if there was any land anywhere in England/Wales and possibly the UK were the mineral rights aren't owned by some one.
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On 21/08/13 19:39, Dave Liquorice wrote:

by default the crown owns the whole landscape mate. you only have freehold on it.
you may or may not have rights to the minerals
you wont own the airspace over it.
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Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 20:25:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

We have "Title Absolute" on our little patch of England and no charges. We don't have rights to the mines and minerals, only the right to compensation if who ever mines/extracts causes damage.
"Title Absolute" means it's ours in the eyes of the law but I wouldn't be surprised if the Crown still has some say. B-)
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On 21/08/13 20:59, Dave Liquorice wrote:

its still freehold
http://www.iconvey.co.uk/articles/classes-of-title-1176883/index.php

land law is arcane and steeped in history.
--
Ineptocracy

(in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.
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On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 22:08:14 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Which says:
"If a title is registered with Absolute Title, the legal estate is vested in the legal owner ('Proprietor') together with all interests subsisting for the benefit of the estate (for example, 'Rights of Way' or 'Rights for the passage of water and drainage' (otherwise known as 'easements') over adjoining land. The legal estate will also be subject to burdens place on the land, for example, covenants or easements in favour of adjoining land; but only those burdens that affected the legal estate at the time of first registration."
As the "Proprietors" it's ours according to that (mines and minerals excepted).

Aye, the get out in the above is the last section as if you go back far enough it was under the Crown.
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I somehow suspect Dave that on that mountain top you live on it'd be in a tunnel if ever and therefore no compensation 4 U M8!....
Same as TNP;!...
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On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 20:59:28 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

should

The HS2 would be and the mine but we are really on the edge of the main orefield. Having said that there is a ventilation shaft (blocked) in our paddock for an adit that starts a hundred foot or so lower down. There are two spoil heaps just down the valley and numerous other workings. The whole area is like a swiss cheese... been mined, mainly for lead, since roman times, most working was late 1700's to mid 1800's, with some going on into the 20th C.
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On Mon, 19 Aug 2013 19:37:36 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"

Do you believe you would actually get a reasonable amount of compensation?

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(\__/) M.
(='.'=) If a man stands in a forest and no woman is around
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Tim Streater scribbled...

"...M74 extension is about to open in Glasgow at a cost of £692m, which works out at £138.4m per mile..."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-13924687

Typical view of someone who lives in the south east and couldn't give a flying fuck about the rest of the country beyond Watford.
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On 18/08/2013 20:50, Artic wrote:

Have to say as someone who lives in the south east, I strongly suspect that HS2 will worsen my transport options to the middle and north of the country. That is one reason I am very wary of the claims made for it.
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Rod

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If it's anything like the TGV service from Paris to Barcelona (not quite there yet) it will make a vast improvement.
It's being promoted wrongly. It's a London to Glasgow route being built in stages. Not a London to Birmingham route which might get extended.
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wrote:

but it wont be
in France/Spain, before they built the HS network "inter city" services were very sparse (as few as one per day to some destinations).
This isn't the case here. All of the destinations that will be served by HS2 phases 1 and 2 already get at least 2 trains per hour. Even the Phase 3 destinations (Scotland) get at leased one per hour.
tim
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