I know this isn't the place but I just want some experience from others.....
Twice recently I have become aware that patients have been *bumped* off a waiting list and had to restart.
The very plausible excuse is that there was no response to letters detailing an appointment, so it was assumed they had *gone away*!
Is this common or is paranoia contagious?
regards
Its common. It keeps the waiting lists down.
And when you do go to an appointment you have to wait in a huge queue, for hours, usually in front of a notice telling you how so much time is wasted by people who do not turn up for appointments. Hmm seems to me it's the people who do turn up that usually have their time wasted!
S
And if you try to ring up to reschedule an appointment you get an answering machine - the relevant person is on holiday until after the appointment. And no matter how many times you try to get through the switchboard (to someone who is not on holiday) you end up in a completely inappropriate department with someone who cannot help. Well, that has been our experience this week!
Compounded by the fact that every clinic, every department, every hospital appears to have a different system.
Does the letter ask for a response? If it does and people don't respond then that is just tough.
What makes me laugh is the implied precision that my facture clinic "appointments" have. The first was 14:30, when I get the next one it's
14:36 and the next is 13:57. Now I'm used to keeping times to the minute, if they say 14:36 I'll be at that reception desk at 14:36 and I expect them to be ready for me as well. Well I can but wish...
Believe me, it is far worse if the consultant looks at you and says I'm booking you into theatre tomorrow morning. As it happens, one of the others in the waiting room had been called in early due to an unexpected vacancy on the theatre list, so nobody had to be bumped to make room for me, but I have no doubt they would have been, if that had been the only option.
Colin Bignell
Its called 'hitting the target & missing the point'.
The media publicise a 'scandal' involving a service. A politician 'solves' the problem by setting targets, but without allocating any extra funding. The target is therefore impossible to meet, so the figures get fudged.
Two examples;
Our local GP's surgery has a target that 'no patient will wait more than two days to see a GP'. So, you ring on a Monday morning at 8:30, the phone is permanently engaged until 9:00 when a helpful answerphone takes over.
Assuming you do get through, you might ('might') get an appointment that day or next day. If a next day appointment isn't available, you are told you must ring tomorrow. Should you suggest that Thursday would be fine, as the matter is not life threatening, you will be told that you can't book a Thursday appointment on a Monday, you have to ring on Thursday.
If you are suitably 'assertive' (read nasty bastard) and insist, they will reluctantly accept the appointment, but you do have to be really assertive. I've used phrases like "I'm not interested in your idiotic targets, do you have a diary in front of you"?
Nobody is actually seen any earlier, but the target has been achieved.
Next example, the London Ambulance Service for whom my daughter works in a front line capacity. The Govmint target for a Cat A (life threatening) call is 75% attendance in 8 minutes. That's 8 minutes from the time the call is received, not the time the address is confirmed from the often (understandably) panicking, emotional or sometimes drunken caller.
In central London, especially at rush hour, this isn't easy to achieve. The response by the LAS management is to invest in FRU's (fast response units) which consist of a single crew in a car (or even motorcycle). They carry a comprehensive range of kit, but not as much as an ambulance, and they can't transport a patient to A&E.
80% of the time the attending FRU will bring in an ambulance to take the patient to A&E because if a problem were to occur later, LAS management don't back up their staff, so the crews have to cover their arse.This of course involves two vehicles & three crew instead of one vehicle & two crew. Apart from that, if the FRU arrives in over 8 minutes & the patient lives, its a failure. If the FRU arrives in under 8 minutes and the patient dies, that's a success - because the target has been achieved. Not a success for the patient obviously.
Not to mention the risks involved in a lone female paramedic attending a stabbing outside a nightclub in Thamesmead at 1am.
Waiting lists were just the start IMO.
Nah, it's a scam - my neighbour has had to chase up appointments that never arrived to be told she's now back of the queue because they allege to have sent one.
My wife and I sat waiting over two years for IVF because they'd "lost" us in the system - we should have had the appointment by their own reckoning within 6 months (they even told us that).
Ha! I recently received a letter telling me of my next appointment for laser treatment on the malignant melanoma in my eye. This is 'day surgery' - takes about 20 minutes sitting down in front of the usual slit lamp while the consultant pulses the laser. Then I walk out and go home.
Last time I was there he was fulminating about the hospital appointments system and its inflexibility; I had a taste of it with the latest letter....
I should attend the day surgery ward at 0730. I should not eat or drink for the previous eight hours. I should not take any of my usual medication. I should....and so it goes on. Then I am warned that if I am late, my bed will be given to someone else. I should bring a change of clothes, pyjamas, etc.
The consultant says that their system simply can't cope with this sort of day surgery...I went for a checkup in a different building last week and I managed to find one of the day surgery nurses, who said that the consultant himself is not scheduled to arrive until 1000. I needn't arrive any earlier, and the rest of the letter is nonsense too. I double checked this with someone else, too.
Oh well....
In message , Tim Lamb writes
My missus works in the admissions (non clinical, purely clerical) part of an NHS hospital.
What you describe is fairly common. Actually it is par for the course.
How about this (paraphrased but generally true).....
Manager: Right, we're about to exceed government targets on waiting times in the "xxxxx" clinical speciality. Ring the first 100 people on the waiting list and offer them surgery this afternoon (knowing full well there is no capacity for surgery that afternoon).
Missus: Whoah, people need some notice to arrange time off work/childcare etc. It's not fair to offer them surgery in two hours time. Most people would have to say "no" to the offer.
Manager: Exactly, and when they say "no", they have declined an appointment so they drop to the bottom of the list and we don't breach targets because the clock is reset.
Missus: But what about the few who might say "yes".
Manager: Call them back an hour later and say you've made a mistake. We're not looking for people to say "yes", we're looking for 118 to say "no". Keep ringing until you've found them.
That's how it works.
My missus refuses to do it, she says it is immoral and she won't be part of it. It has probably put black marks on her record, but good on her for standing up to it.
I think your "paranoia" radar is likely spot on. Someone
Just to OT this OT, the dental system is no better. The NHS dental charges are now higher that some "private" dental plans! The fees have been skillfully set by those Whitehall folk. Thanks Maggy - for training up Blair so well! Just one filling now costs ~£40++ on the NHS!
I had cause to visit NHS direct a while ago and waited 6 hours to be seen! (This was after some sheer butchery by a dentist trained in Portugal - the only one I could get to see when my dentist retired). The Indian-Brit who sorted me out was 1st class - very skillful and a credit to his profession. Anyway, the NHS dental emergency place was full and if you haven't had the experience of sitting in one of these halls-of-pain I can tell you it's like something out of Dickens. Ok the decor. is wonderful and the staff do their best (damn good people most of them). But the sheer overload is unbelievable. And the pain so many peiple are going though beggers belief. I know it's not usually life-threatening but still, it really is grim. Let's get an more admininstrators and pay them £££ - NOT!
I trust you have written to your MP about this - using your real name of course
Last I was reading the 'official' guidelines, I am pretty sure they said that there was a minimum warning period for things like this. So declining a slot offered at very short notice would not count against the patient. However, I am not sure if these were local or national rules so it is difficult for me to verify.
A couple of weeks ago I had a sudden bout of S & D (sat on pan, bowl on lap, you don't need a picture) and called a doctor. He arrived within 20 minutes, poked and prodded, and decreed that I needed an ultrasound scan. I walked to the clinic, a few minutes away, had the scan within an hour, saw a consultant 30 mins later, and a surgeon at the same time. The diagnosis was surgery not required, but was handed medication on the spot. The whole lot cost me four quid.
The location of this medical utopia: Yambol, Bulgaria.
My better half had new dentures top and bottom, and a three crowns, no waiting, finished in a week, from an english trained dentist, 80 quid all in. I love this backward, third world country.
Why would any trained doctor think you needed a scan just because you had S&D? There are many viruses going around that cause just that.
It wasn't that bad either if you managed a few minutes walk to the clinic.
It would have been free in the UK as the treatment is rest, no food and plenty to drink.
If it persists then further investigation may be required, which is also free.
The one thing the NHS is good at is treating acute problems. I went to see the doc with stomach pains, was in an ambulance ten minutes later and had my appendix removed within two hours. I had a (damn uncomfortable) tube hanging out my abdomen for a week after to get rid of the infection. Guess what, it was free.
None of what I've read here has accorded with our experiences of the NHS.
We've had excellent service, in what we consider acceptable waiting times. Appointments at all levels have been well timed and we've had enough time to discuss our cases properly. The only time there was what I considered an excessive lack of urgency was because Spouse didn't think it was necessary to give all his medical details. Once I intervened the treatment was swift and effective.
A lot of responsibility rests with the patient.
And if you don't like what your get you can, as others have pointed out, go elsewhere - but not all experiences of foreign medical treatments are ideal.
Mary
Bulgaria is not a third world country by any sensible definition.
Hear, hear. This sort of waiting list target fudging needs to be blown open and stopped. Any one with evidence needs to rattle a few cages where it matters like their MP. Find your MPs contact details from:
That's a fault of their system. Advance bookings waste so much resource due to people simply not turning up on the day.
Since our surgery stopped accepting them, things are much better. You can only get an appointmrnt on the day you ring but the system is run such that you *will* get an appointment on the day you ring. Never failed me so far.
MBQ
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.