OT - Electrical - but not diy

Posting here as I think what I have to say may be of interest - also looking for advice on which is more appropriate group to post to.
Firstly there is an introduction to "the problem" - but then four particular questions:
I have stayed in the same "4 star" hotel in London each week for the last four weeks in different rooms each time:
Week one: noticed that there was a heated towel-rail in the bathroom which had a bonding cable from the earth bonding point on the rail which disappeared through a hole in the wall - I assumed to be strapped to part of the plumbing or a suitable bonding point. Good.
Week two: noticed that the earth bonding point on the towel rail was not connected to anything - also there was an electrical appliance testing sticker saying that the equipment had failed its test, was potentially dangerous and not to be used. The equipment was connected to the mains and in use. Definitely not good.
Week three: There was no earth bonding cable from the bonding point on the towel rail - the rail was not in use - I assume the fuse had been pulled because of there being no bonding. Good.
Week four: the bonding point on the towel rail was not connected to anything. The towel rail was in use. Not good.
Actions: Week two: I strongly expressed my concern to the duty manager - explained the problem and said that I expected it to be sorted and that I did not expect to experience such "problems" again. All comments apparently taken on board, the duty manager would pass on my concern to the Hotel Engineer.
Week four: asked to see duty manager - he arranged meeting with Hotel Engineer.
I explained my concerns to the Engineer (he was aware of my earlier concerns). He explained that the rail was adequately bonded to earth, as the rail was supplied by a conventional three wire cable (one of which was earth) which terminated in a junction box. The earth from the junction box was itself earth bonded to two independant "earthed risers" in the hotel.
I disagreed and said that I thought that this was not sufficient and was certainly not an in dependant earth bonding of the appliance.
I asked him if the wiring of the appliance conformed to the relevant IEEE regs. He said that he "thought" that it did. I commented that "thought" was not sufficient.
Questions:
1)    What is the most appropriate group for my query? 2)    Are my concerns justified? 3)    Is the hotel actually breaking the law in any way?     4)    To whom should I escalate?
--
Pete Ramm
snipped-for-privacy@REMOVETHISntlworld.com.INVALID
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Try the enviromental health department of the local council.
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James Salisbury wrote:

It might fall under the fire certification system. - (depending on the area) they need to have electrical certificates to pass the fire certificate inspection.
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Peter Ramm wrote:

He's probably right, you're probably wrong. It is perfectly in order for an appliance like this to have the supplementary bonding connected via the flexible supply cord. From the "junction box" you mention, which is likely to be a fused connection unit, there should be a circuit protective (earth) conductor going back to the point of supply (i.e. a distribution board) and, if necessary, supplementary bonding conductors to other accessible metalwork in the bathroom.

IEE regs - aka BS 7671. Nothing to do with the IEEE!

In the UK this is as good as any, or you could try sci.engr.electrical.compliance

Probably not.

Pass - but there's some evidence of (over enthusiastic) electrical inspections taking place, so it looks as if there's some effort being made to discharge their responsibilities under the Electricity at Work Regulations.

No-one. Find something more important to worry about.
--
Andy

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[more snips]

[snip]
And don't ever stay in any hotel in almost any other country in the world either.
Hotels in this country take far more care over safety regulations than pretty much anywhere else I've been (I have not visited the US, though - I imagine they are also very careful because of their litigation culture).
Al
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Andy Wade wrote:

My sentiments exactly...
--
Grunff

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Well many thanks bodger - (do they still call you that).
I rather sillily thought that if the hotel was not conforming to the relevant regulations then there was a fair chance that the installation could actually be dangerous.
Sorry for wasting your time - keep up the good work - and thanks to those with the sensible answers.
--
Pete Ramm
snipped-for-privacy@REMOVETHISntlworld.com.INVALID
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On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:32:29 +0100, Peter Ramm

Practically speaking, Peter, if this causes you concern then I would stay at a different hotel. The chances of anything happening without gargantuan effort on your part are probably slim to none.
It reminds me of this story. Your towel rail has all the ingredients for a similar exasperating experience.
The following letters are taken from an actual incident between a London hotel and one of its guests. The Hotel ended up submitting the letters to the London Sunday Times.
Dear Maid,
Please do not leave any more of those little bars of soap in my bathroom since I have brought my own bath-sized Dial. Please remove the six unopened little bars from the shelf under the medicine chest and another three in the shower soap dish. They are in my way.
Thank you, S. Berman
*********************************************************************** Dear Room 635,
I am not your regular maid. She will be back tomorrow, Thursday, from her day off. I took the 3 hotel soaps out of the shower soap dish as you requested. The 6 bars on your shelf I took out of your way and put on top of your Kleenex dispenser in case you should change your mind. This leaves only the 3 bars left today which my instructions from the management is to leave 3 soaps daily. I hope this is satisfactory.
Kathy, Relief Maid
*********************************************************************** Dear Maid - I hope you are my regular maid.
Apparently Kathy did not tell you about my note to her concerning the little bars of soap. When I got back to my room this evening I found you had added 3 little Camays to the shelf under my medicine cabinet. I am going to be here in the hotel for two weeks and have brought my own bath-size Dial so I won't need those 6 little Camays which are on the shelf. They are in my way when shaving, brushing teeth, etc. Please remove them.
S. Berman
*********************************************************************** Dear Mr. Berman,
My day off was last Wed. so the relief maid left 3 hotel soaps which we are instructed by the management. I took the 6 soaps which were in your way on the shelf and put them in the soap dish where your Dial was. I put the Dial in the medicine cabinet for your convenience. I didn't remove the 3 complimentary soaps which are always placed inside the medicine cabinet for all new check-ins and which you did not object to when you checked in last Monday. Please let me know if I can of further assistance.
Your regular maid, Dotty
*********************************************************************** Dear Mr. Berman,
The assistant manager, Mr. Kensedder, informed me this morning that you called him last evening and said you were unhappy with your maid service. I have assigned a new girl to your room. I hope you will accept my apologies for any past inconvenience. If you have any future complaints please contact me so I can give it my personal attention. Call extension 1108 between 8AM and 5PM.
Thank you. Elaine Carmen Housekeeper
*********************************************************************** Dear Miss Carmen,
It is impossible to contact you by phone since I leave the hotel for business at 7:45 AM and don't get back before 5:30 or 6PM. That's the reason I called Mr. Kensedder last night. You were already off duty. I only asked Mr. Kensedder if he could do anything about those little bars of soap. The new maid you assigned me must have thought I was a new check-in today, since she left another 3 bars of hotel soap in my medicine cabinet along with her regular delivery of 3 bars on the bathroom shelf. In just 5 days here I have accumulated 24 little bars of soap. Why are you doing this to me?
S. Berman
*********************************************************************** Dear Mr. Berman,
Your maid, Kathy, has been instructed to stop delivering soap to your room and remove the extra soaps. If I can be of further assistance, please call extension 1108 between 8AM and 5PM.
Thank you, Elaine Carmen, Housekeeper
*********************************************************************** Dear Mr. Kensedder,
My bath-size Dial is missing. Every bar of soap was taken from my room including my own bath-size Dial. I came in late last night and had to call the bellhop to bring me 4 little Cashmere Bouquets.
S. Berman
*********************************************************************** Dear Mr. Berman,
I have informed our housekeeper, Elaine Carmen, of your soap problem. I cannot understand why there was no soap in your room since our maids are instructed to leave 3 bars of soap each time they service a room. The situation will be rectified immediately. Please accept my apologies for the inconvenience.
Martin L. Kensedder Assistant Manager
*********************************************************************** Dear Mrs. Carmen,
Who the hell left 54 little bars of Camay in my room? I came in last night and found 54 little bars of soap. I don't want 54 little bars of Camay. I want my one damn bar of bath-size Dial. Do you realize I have 54 bars of soap in here. All I want is my bath size Dial. Please give me back my bath-size Dial.
S. Berman
*********************************************************************** Dear Mr. Berman,
You complained of too much soap in your room so I had them removed. Then you complained to Mr. Kensedder that all your soap was missing so I personally returned them. The 24 Camays which had been taken and the 3 Camays you are supposed to receive daily. I don't know anything about the 4 Cashmere Bouquets. Obviously your maid, Kathy, did not know I had returned your soaps so she also brought 24 Camays plus the 3 daily Camays. I don't know where you got the idea this hotel issues bath-size Dial. I was able to locate some bath-size Ivory which I left in your room.
Elaine Carmen Housekeeper
*********************************************************************** Dear Mrs. Carmen,
Just a short note to bring you up-to-date on my latest soap inventory. As of today I possess: On the shelf under medicine cabinet - 18 Camay in 4 stacks of 4 and 1 stack of 2. On the Kleenex dispenser - 11 Camay in 2 stacks of 4 and 1 stack of 3. On the bedroom dresser - 1 stack of 3 Cashmere Bouquet, 1 stack of 4 hotel-size Ivory, and 8 Camay in 2 stacks of 4. Inside the medicine cabinet - 14 Camay in 3 stacks of 4 and 1 stack of 2. In the shower soap dish - 6 Camay, very moist. On the northeast corner of tub - 1 Cashmere Bouquet, slightly used. On the northwest corner of tub - 6 Camays in 2 stacks of 3. Please ask Kathy when she services my room to make sure the stacks are neatly piled and dusted. Also, please advise her that stacks of more than 4 have a tendency to tip. May I suggest that my bedroom window sill is not in use and will make an excellent spot for future soap deliveries. One more item, I have purchased another bar of bath-sized Dial which I am keeping in the hotel vault in order to avoid further misunderstandings.
S. Berman
.andy
To email, substitute .nospam with .gl
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<snip>

<snip letters>
Talk about ROFLOL, had the guest not heard of something called a waste bin ?!...
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wrote:

Shelley Berman is an American comedian on the Borscht-belt circuit, another of those Brooklyn Borge. This is part of his schtick.
Now about that accident with the barrel of bricks and the rope.....
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"Peter Ramm" wrote | Week three: There was no earth bonding cable from the bonding | point on the towel rail - the rail was not in use - I assume | the fuse had been pulled because of there being no bonding. Good.
Not good. For a 4* hotel bathroom to not have a warm towel rail all week is not good.
Owain
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