This is probably a bit OT here but you are such a knowledgeable lot ... ;-)
Daughter spiked her first tree today and is now talking about getting some (I believe she will need these along with all her PPE for her apprenticeship but won't get any till we need to etc).
Question though, how come a pair (set?) of basic climbing spikes cost about the same as a small decent chainsaw? I guess they have to be properly made and probably tested somehow but they aren't particularly complicated or sophisticated (are they)?
ie:
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connection etc, just a good selection to look at in one place).
I'm not sure what she borrowed today but she said 1) they weren't very comfortable and 2) they made her legs ache!
I dare say point 1) might be down to model / fit but point 2) is probably just down to strength, practice and technique?
I guess it's small volume sales. I wasn't aware there were so many different types, I just remember one type of standard steel GPO ones for 21 quid, bashlins at 300 quid and a bit later the buckinghams came available. I'm talking about 1974 when my week's wage was 19quid.
In practice you don't get the chance to use spikes on most jobs as bread and butter is thinning and reduction, you generally are only allowed to use spikes on take down.
Of course pole racing is a sport now which will influence which sort are bought.
The short gaffs are more suitable in this country.
The other thing to look at is the heel of the boot being suitable for spikes.
I've aways been pleased to get them off, the gpo ones were very painful and the buckinghams I have now not much better. As I couldn't get within a time ten times longer it takes the UK pole climbing champ to get to 80ft I've never attempted speed attempts.
Luckily my GPO days didn't include 'Poles and holes' .;-)
Understood (and what she was doing today with a 'Silky').
She did actually mention that but (hopefully) it's a long way off!
Ok. She said the tree she climbed today (a conifer of some sort) was quite soft and she said it was quite difficult to get the gaff out once it was set in properly.
I think today's was a 'we are ok for time so what's the next thing you could try' sorta moment so very much un rehearsed. Her boots are Haix 'Protectors' and I'm not sure they are specifically 'climbers' boots (in case that makes any difference).
Ok, she will be please to hear that. ;-)
Indeed and these guys are mental, both up and down!
It used to take me an hour to climb 80 ft. :-) No joke. Then I visited Malaysia for the first time, and watched those young guys tie a banana fiber rope around their heels and shimmy up a 30 ft palm tree in seconds. So it must be down to technique. LOL That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. :-)
The spikes are not comfortable to use at all, worse in the beginning, and as AJH says, the footwear is important also. Boots with a slightly raised heel are good for gripping and lining up the stirrup to your leg.
I liked the Buckingham Spurs, which are steel and have two V gaffs at the heel. You bought the replacements that are one piece with the split spikes on it. I don't see them any more.
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They are small enough to grip and don't stick as much if they penetrate to deep. Great for climbing on loose bark and soft timber because you felt the slip and could correct your footing quicker. Wonder why I can't find a link to them any more. :-( They were cheaper to buy too.
And that's the thing isn't it. No HSE in many such places and I guess folk must get hurt / killed, but given a choice of climb / risk or starving to death it's a no brainer? :-(
It would be mine too!
Ah ok. I'm sorta pleased in a way as I wasn't sure if it was just her being wimpy or the spikes she had borrowed being poor ones.
I think yesterday she just had her ankle length steel toecap boots on (well not *just* of course ) rather than the Haix's which are much taller (like full lace-up DM's) and may have made things more comfortable (stiffer sole and more padding in general).
Would you say for general Arb work you actually *feel* the weight (the lighter models are also often much more expensive).
Hmm, on this list the 'alloy' spurs are some of the cheapest?
I can see why that might be a problem as you get more experienced. As a noob I guess knowing you are 'well spiked' could be comforting but a pain once your experience / confidence builds up (pulling them out once you have been working at one level for a while etc)?
Well if you do find them and you still think they are better then please let us know. ;-)
T i m
p.s. I've managed to get the workshop manual for the Husqvarna brush cutter (pdf and very clear / informative, nice pictures etc) and the Stihl stuff should be on it's way. ;-)
No, she ain't being wimpy. The first time I was on the rope and spikes, my knees shook so much that the leaves were falling of the tree I was climbing. No Kidding. :-)
Then my first pole climb on the power lines was totally different from being on the trees. That's why I liked the double spur gaffs on the poles. They feel a little more secure because of the spread in your weight across them. I can't find a site in the UK that shows them anymore, so they may have been removed from sale here. Weird.
I preferred wearing a lower ankle boot because you could move your legs a little more, and could keep the circulation going if on a long stop. The boot needs to have a slightly raised heel or deeper arch form, to grab the stirrup, or your feet can feel as though the are able to slip about to much. Not a good thing to build your confidence when that happens. :-)
Longer spikes on the rigid steel felt more secure, in my opinion, and didn't creak as much as the alloy ones do. Which is also a confidence downer. You might also think that the padding on the calve collar needs to be ticker for more comfort, but I think it is more down to feeling a secure grip around your leg that makes them feel more comfortable. So the padding just needs to be there to stop them from chaffing through your pants leg.
The alloy spurs are just as good as the steel. They are quite a bit lighter in weight than the harder steel spurs. They're tested to the same safety standards. The gaffs are steel on most of them, and are easily replaced just like the steel leg stirrups.
The only thing I didn't like about the alloy metal was that, it felt like you could bend them and break them more readily than the steel types. Is weird to try and explain it, but the alloy doesn't feel strong enough when you are wearing them. But that is more than likely my imagination, because I know they are all tested for the same job, they just feel different. :-)
I think it is down to experience. The heavy weight of the stirrup when you first try them on and walk in them, is a real weird feeling. You automatically walk with stiff legs, when they actually don't restrict the movement in your ankles or knees at all. But you just feel like you have to walk like a robot. LOL at the thought of that.
They are not good for driving a vehicle though, believe me. :-)
I tried to find them on the google, but it looks as though they have gone for good. The ones we used with the forestry commission had two gaffs in a downward facing V at the boot arch. The felt a lot more secure because of it. Like they locked in to where you placed them. It's a mystery why they are not advertised anywhere in the shops. They were made by Buckingham, I remember that, but don't show in their catalogue either now. Must have been special or summit. Ah well.
If I do find them, I'll give a shout out.
Did you find some? Brilliant !!! An e-mail to the makers usually gets results. Explain why you need them, and they will normally try to help with something. Even engineers drawings they have of old stock, can be of use.
Tell them to work it where the sun shines if they ask for money for them. But an offer to pay postage usually gains you respect. It don't hurt to ask, nicely. :-)
Sorry, but I haven't had a chance to look through our boxes. I'm going to have a look now. Keep fingers crossed.
LOL. Ok, well she is quite tough (for a girl), green belt Taekwondo, clay shooter, motorbike rider, mosh pit again last night (Slipknot or summat mad), and whist reasonably strong, probably isn't 'bloke strong' for her size etc (huge generalisations there but you know what I mean). She also suffers a bit with moist skin so it makes it quite painful to do things like undo a tight bottle top, not for the strength but for her skin. Hence she tends to wear gloves all the time at work (not a bad idea anyway but doesn't help build up any natural resistance). However she can also be stubborn and that can help her get places and do things she might normally not bother with. ;-)
I guess poles are more predictable, more consistent material, no branches etc?
Ok and thanks for looking.
Indeed and understood. I think all her work boots have a decent tread sole and decent size heel.
I bet. Something in her favour here is she's quite light 8-9st, so, might put quite a bit less stress on a pair of spurs than my 17st!
Understood.
Again and pushed less with a lighter (than typical) user.
Yep, I saw the replacements on the site. I note (with engineering interest) that some are located mechanically and retained with a screw whilst others and 'just' screwed on. I think I'd be keen to get the Loctite out when replacing any! ;-)
I know what you mean. Ally never feels as 'strong' as the equivalent item in steel and more worryingly doesn't have the same failure mode as steel (often just breaking rather than bending etc). As you say though, highly unlikely to happen with any of this kit, partly explaining the price I guess.
Like she did the first time she was asked to wear her PPE to college!
Funnily that's something I've been quite strict with her when taking her our for driving experience (I'm not really giving her lessons as such) in her Ka (as the pedals seem quite close). She now keeps a pair of soft trainers on the car just for driving.
Oh well, thanks again for looking.
Understood. Like standing on one leg as such. ;-)
Could be just one of those things that 'evolved' commercially. Yes two gaffs are better than one but not by enough to make it worth making them etc? Or maybe a single gaff is better in extreme cases etc?
Indeed, amazing he never killed himself doing it (although the fact he killed himself base jumping when attached to a rope, may just have got there first rather than instead!)
A mate of mine who used to be a keen climber thought that a 400 ft ascent like that would normally take 2 - 2.5 hours with ropes and traditional climbing methods. You would probably never believe under five mins was even remotely possible without actually seeing it.
Clever, like the cormorants (is it?) they use to catch fish (but less cruel etc).
I hope they can't get monkeys to prune trees or daughter will be out of a job before she even starts!
Anyone else heard of extra instances of arb / gardening power tools getting stolen around this time. A mate has had an old Stihl chainsaw and a long saw taken out of his van and a local agricultural supplier was ram-raided a few weeks back and a whole load of such stuff taken. For some reason they couldn't get the Case IH Axial-Flow 8010 in their van! ;-)
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