Opinel Knives

[TimW]

French, a bit iconic, wood handled folding knives in many sizes. I have an idea that folding knives with locking handles are illegal, or not saleable or something in the UK. Is that so?

TW

[Cursitor Doom]

I'd be very, very surprised if that were so. I think you're getting confused with flick knives/switchblade knives.

[Andy Burns]

Prepare to be surprised ...

[Steve Walker]

Yes, apparently, according to minutes from the meetings that took place to prepare this legislation, it was made clear that the intention was to not make locking knives illegal, as it was considered a safety feature to prevent work knives suddenly folding in use. Somehow that was omitted and they have never gone back to change the law.

SteveW

[newshound]

Quite apart from my much loved ancient Opinel, I still have a couple of "farmers' knives" from Countrywide which are now illegal, not to mention my really useful Leatherman Crunch (AKA folding "mole wrench") and another standard Leatherman with screwdriver bits which lives in the Honda (on the so far entirely justified assumption that this needs no other tools, apart from wheel brace and jack).

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

One can only assume the police are sensible enough to use discretion when applying f***ed up laws. And that judges would throw out any case involving such nonsense.

[tabbypurr]

I see you've not been in such a situation.

NT

[TimW]

Thanks Andy, So it's just plain illegal to carry one in the uk for no better reason than 'it might come in handy'. Not actually illegal to have one but certainly illegal to buy one in France and bring it home.

That's all I needed to know. TW

[TimW]

I had a nice little stainless lock knife with a blade of about 2" long. Didn't even know I was breaking the law. Bought it at an agricultural show. TW

[Steve Walker]

I've certainly read of a case where a man who used a locking multi-tool as part of his business was taken to court for possessing it (police just happened to spot it). He presented the record of the minutes from the implementation of this law as part of his defence. The judge, agreed that it was harsh, but that the law was clear and found him guilty. Because the man worked in an industry with enchanced checks, he lost the business he ran and his entire livelihood.

SteveW

[Jimmy Wilkinson Knife]

That judge has no business being in his profession.

[Cursitor Doom]

One of my closest friends who was a night manager at the airport hotel he worked at always kept a small locking knife in his pocket to clean his pipe out and cut the binding twine on the morning papers. One particular morning just before clocking off, he got a call from one of the maids in a right old state. The guest who'd been staying in that room had tried to (unsuccessfully) hang herself. A neck tie she'd used was so tight she was turning from blue to purple. My mate was *just* in time to save her life using that knife he always carried. And yet this daft law would have penalised him since he probably had no solid legal grounds for carrying it. :(

[T i m]

So for those of us who regularly carry a 'pen / pocket-knife' or multitool with a non-locking sub 3" blade ('in public', because we are often in situations when not in our homes or cars when we might / would need one, just as we might a phone, torch or money etc), the emphasis is the second half of this para, 'unless' onwards?:

"carry a knife in public without good reason, unless it has a folding blade with a cutting edge 3 inches long or less"

As an aside, I think the law looks for 'sharps or points', as might airlines and if my 88 year old Mum can have her small sewing scissors confiscated before boarding a flight (or suggestions of people having tweezers confiscated pre a flight), what of a fine screwdriver or awl on a multitool?

'No sharps, no points' ... what about 'needle-nose pliers' as they sound (and often can be) pointy, as can a pencil?

It's like dogs ... lots of people regularly mix in public with dogs that *could* be pretty dangerous (to a human) but they typically aren't, because they haven't been trained to be and it isn't in their temperament. That is in contrast to all those to 'use' a dog for status or intentionally as a weapon.

Cheers, T i m

p.s. I heard of a shop-keeper who had a knife pulled on him and he said to the lad ... "I hope you are good with that because if you aren't I'm going to take it off you a stick it up your ar$e". (Apparently) the lad look confused for a second and then walked out. ;-)

[Andy Burns]

I think with the current knife-crime issue, there's zero chance of getting the classifications relaxed as 'they' don't want to send out any message that is seen to condone carrying knives.

I carry a small Stanley knife (along with a handful of screwdrivers, pliers, penlight, etc) in my laptop bag, but that is basically only ever in my house, car, or on a customer site, the times I'd even walk down a road with it are rare, so I don't plan to remove the knife.

[misterroy]

Reading the govt website it says "have blades that can be locked and refolded only by pressing a button" The french knives do not have a button, they have a twist collar. So they would appear to be OK?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

The idea of carrying around a multi-tool at all times just in case it might be needed seems odd to me. Probably those who would also object to an ID card.

[PeterC]

My folding pruning saw is locked when open. About an 8" blade and could inflict a very nasty wound. I sometimes carry that, secateurs, short, geared, croppers and - gasp - a sickle, so all rather sharp in some way and two of them are pointy. Haven't yet taken the scythe for a walk - haven't found a way to conceal it!

[Huge]

Depends how much you're paying your lawyer and whether the magistrate got his end away last night.

[Robin]

No. You are putting to much weight on the gov.uk site.

The legislation merely provides that the "Offence of having article with blade or point in public place" does not apply to "a folding pocketknife" with a blade no longer than 3 inches.

There's no definition of "folding pocketknife". But it has been argued in court. In Harris v DPP it was held that:

"...a knife which has a blade which can be fixed in the open position by a locking device is not a folding pocketknife within the meaning of section 1(3) of the 1993 Act"

and

"It cannot be described as a knife of that kind if it has a device which is designed, until it has been overcome, to prevent the blade from being folded."

Note nothing about buttons.

More generally, the gov.uk site cannot be relied upon as the _whole_ truth. To be fair, no guidance can else it'd be as long and hard to read as the original legislation and case law. But gov.uk marked a significant simplification (or dumbing down) of the guidance departments used to produce.

[Roger Hayter]

The idea of not carrying a few tools around for when they are inevitably needed seems odd to me. And I strongly object to the process of allocating ID cards, at least as much as to being forced to carry one.