More broadband issues..

[The Natural Philosopher]

Well as I posted last week, go the magical upgrade, and learnt thanks to wall who replied a bit more about current DSL technology.

Now a further point.

At various times the connection goes gritty, and the log files show its dropping and reconnecting..the router shows various levels of SNR and connection speeds - anything from 5 to 6 Mbs roughly, and from 0-4 dB S/NR

It's best in the wee small hours, and is generally fine through the day, but each evening a plethora of disconnects happens.

There seems to be no way to tell it 'please: 2Mps is all I want, and just be stable will you'

I feel that the in house kit can reasonably be discounted, (not altogether : I have some thermostats that arc and cause heavy mains interference, but it seems asynchronous with respect to that) as therotre stats seem to show issues with the link t the exchange.

My real question is, is this normal? and if not is it something I can justifiably bitch to BT about, or do I have to go to my ISP instead?

[Brian Morrison]

Sounds like it might be related to something interfering locally then, tracing this is not easy but it might help if you can try plugging in to the test socket on your BT master socket to rule out problems with the internal wiring (assuming you have extensions etc).

Which modem/router are you using, some of them have the ability to force a given sync rate, if present it's often accessed via a telnet interface rather than via the usual http web server interface.

You might be able to get interleaving set on by BT, that might help, or indeed get the SNR margin increased. The latter is supposedly automatic when the kit at the exchange spots that the line has re-synced frequently. The interleaving may also be automatic, but getting BT to do anything with it needs to be with the assistance of your ISP, effectively they are BT's customer and have to request support.

As a last resort, you could ask to go back on a fixed rate (i.e. not Max DSL) of 2Mbps or lower that would give you a much higher SNR margin.

[The Natural Philosopher]

It already is. Only thing beyond that is a PABX.

Dlink DSL-504, Never tried to telnet into it - but I know it accepts it.

Not sure if the D-link supports interleaving..

Is that something that the ISP or BT does?

[John Rumm]

The seems a little low on the SNR...

It may be you are on a MaxADSL service (the BT default in most cases these days). This is an auto adjusting rate adaptable product. What it attempts to do is match the sync speed with the best that your line will tolerate.

It can take typically up to two weeks to arrive at a stable result. Forcing it to reconnect once per day during the most difficult times (early evening usually), can help speed the process.

I would say it is normal if it is a new service, or some other parameter on your line has changed dramatically in recent times. If it persists for more than a couple of weeks, then the ISP would be the first port of call (talking to BT is hard since you need to speak to wholesale, and they try hard to stop you doing that!)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Is a long line and frankly I didn't expect to get more than 2megs out of it at best..typical download speeds with all the other crap - contention etc - is about 3Mbps. I only really wanted better than 256k UPSTREAM.

Ok. its only a couple of weeks old..I'll wait a bit longer. I haven't deliberately gone for a retrain bar once. It does that on its own anyway.

OK.

>

[tony sayer]

In article , The Natural Philosopher scribeth thus

Thats is very low U sure your reporting that correctly its just that I wouldn't have thought that poor an SN would give you those speeds..

What make and model of Router are you using and what ISP is "in use"....

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Unless you get your broadband service direct from BT, your ISP is the one to complain to as they are BT's customer, not you, for the broadband part.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Here..more fun for the geeks

Protocol ADSL State Showtime

Data Path Interleave Operation Mode G.DMT

Downstream Upstream Line Status ADSL Link Speed 5920 kbps 448 kbps SNR 3.5 dB 0.0 dB ATEN 46 dB 25 dB Line Error ADSL layer FEC 24 0 CRC 0 0 ATM layer HEC 0 0 Frame Counter 1396222 1152753

Loop Distance: About 9 K ft.

..more fun for the geeks

I retrained it an hour ago..

[Andy Hall]

I have a high loss situation as well, although more through use of aluminium cable. I also wanted to have > 256k having previously had a wireless service which has now been withdrawn.

There are DSL Max services in standard and premium classes with the premium service offering up to 832k.

I wanted rather more than that so have two lines with bonding. This arrangement works well.

The ISP can make certain parameter changes to your line via a portal provided by BT.

[Dave Liquorice]

The SNR here varies from -1 to 15 dB depending on the time of day (lowest at night) and the connection speed. A high connection speed say upper

5,000 kbps will get a negative SNR at night and will generally retrain to a lower speed giving an improved SNR. Stable seems to be lower 5,000 kbps with a SNR varying from 4 to 15dB. ZyXEL 660R router.

Are you in an ordinary street enviroment? It's probably down to all the RF noise from peoples tellys when they come home or some other local interference associated with people being in.

[Brian Morrison]

The attenuation looks about right, but the line must be poor in some way. I see about 14-15dB SNR margin with a rate capped to 5120 kbps, my line is approximately 4km (13,000ft) and will train at ~6.5Mbps if I allow the SNR to fall to the 6dB target, it's then pretty flaky and retrains far too often. You have interleaving on as well and still only see 3.5dB SNR (margin?). That looks pretty awful, I wonder whether maybe you have a dodgy joint on one half of the pair. I had a fault of this nature about 18 months ago and a pair swap cured it, the symptoms were that the SNR plummeted from >30dB (I was then on a 1Mbps service) to

A really long line is about 10km, or 33,000 ft. Some modems will hang on at this distance, but probably not with Max only with a fixed rate service.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I have a couple of notches too..around 270k and 290k and a few more lesser ones up the spectrum. No audible noise AFAICT..

Ok so its likely there are line issues of SOME sort.

is my first port of call my ISP?

[Brian Morrison]

Yes, they'll probably give you some nonsensical exercises to carry out before they take much notice though.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I have never seen it better than 4.5dB day or night, and its not showing a pattern that can see. Last night it ws up and down all night. Its been stable since 1pm today.

Not really, no. ;-)

There's a mixture of undeground and overheads down some roads, and not others..

I wold say that is about 80% underground..there is one stretch along a country road which I think I use, that is up poles, and of course its up pole and across to the house My very *own* pole IIRC.

No. definitely not..maybe outside temperature tho. It was COLD last night. Its warmer this afternoon..

Anyway I have contacted Clara net - let's see how it turns out..

[The Natural Philosopher]

Actually the first reponse was 'call us' the second was 'I'll test your line' the third was 'your credit card has expired' (I don't use their default e-mail service so never saw that one) The fourth was 'your lie test ok' The fifth was 'can you just disconnect everything except the PC - the answer was 'no I can't: the PC is connected to a network and house wiring and is nowhere near the router' The sixth was 'can you disconnect the microfilter' - the answer was no I can't because the router has a different plug to the BT one...and only gos t the filter.

I pointed out that until the upgrade there were no issues, ergo it strongly points to the higher line speed, and nothing beyond the router being an issue. Blank incomprehension.

The seventh was 'I don't think we can help you: You may have to buy another router'

And now I've missed the bloody shops as well.

GRRR. Bloody non English speaking techie on the other end with VERY limited knowledge.

What is the way through the morass to actually getting BT to put a reflectometer or WHY on the line and test it?

\

[Adrian C]

"If your nerves are up to it, short the supply to your house".

In this case, the telephone wires. :-)

Then BT engineers will be out to see you, shortly...

On the other hand, you could try asking your ISP for your MAC* number. That might start something rolling. Hopefully, heads...

Check the support forums for your ISP. Geek folk over there will have certainly been down avenues with the ISP with issues similar to yours ;-)

• - MAC, Migration Authorisation Code - for those puzzling over something else MAC like.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I already told him it would be cheaper to switch internet to BT than buy a new router.

Don't think there are any...

[Brian Morrison]

Which ISP?

is a good place to start looking for help of this nature.

[Brian Morrison]

[Brian Morrison]