loft conversion - stair options

[sm_jamieson]

What would the panel ;-) think about the following options regarding loft conversion to 3 bed house with gable roof.

1. Squeeze in a windy type staircase to the loft, maybe lose some of a small box room to do this, and have a single master bedroom in the roof. These type of stairs always make the landing/main staircase area a bit claustrophobic and cramped.
2. Lose the box room totally, put nice looking "normal stairs" starting from the old box room location at the front of the house and rising parallel-ish to the pitch roof at the front, leaving more space in the dormer section, and probably allowing 2 rooms in the loft, and all rooms bigger than the box room was. This would let light onto the landing, meaning I could brick up the windows over the bedroom doors, which would nicely fit in with the new fire door requirements.

I love the idea of (2) since it gives a nice landing/hall area upstairs with a window at the end and doesn't look so much like a loft conversion, but would this arrangment be harder to sell (not that we will soon !) Opinions requested ! Thanks, Simon.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I'd trade a box room for a decent bedroom any day.

I built a non spiral but 180 degree turn staircase here bang under the ridge for similar reasons.

It's less than 2meters square foot print. I doubt a true spiral would have been much less.

[robgraham]

I'm sure you've taken this into account but do remember the height requirements in stair wells. I can't remember what they are now but I know that they limited what I could do when designing an extension to a low cottage.

Rob

[Man at B&Q]

Is there enough left of the box room to create an en-suite for an adjacent bedroom? That would be a definite plus. Even just a large built in wardrobe would be useful.

MBQ

[John Rumm]

Slightly hard to call without having pictures, and sizes etc. If those are the only two options, then 2 sounds better.

I managed to place the new stairs over the top of the existing ones which worked nice and neatly and did not intrude into any room space. Would that not work for you? (we did have the advantage of a reasonably wide landing to start with).

[sm_jamieson]

Probably not. The idea is to move the stairs as far forward as possible, leaving space for two rooms across the width of the dormer, thus not wasting any space under the dormer with stairs. Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

The idea is to squeeze whatever staircase under the eaves as much as possible leaving the valuable dormer space free. If I have the stairway running under the pitch of the roof, thats perfect use of space. Roof pitch is quite steep but probably not 42 degrees, so care would be needed there. I could probably go up like that and then turn into the loft when high enough. Also I love the idea of having a grand (ish for a humble house !) 1st floor landing with a window on the end of it. You'd end up with 1st and 2nd floors having 2 bedrooms and a bathroom. Simon.

[Peter Crosland]

Go and talk to Building Control about what is legally possible before you go any further. No point in doing a lot of design and then finding you can't do it because of regulatory constraints.

Peter Crosland

[John Rumm]

1.9m in the centre of the tread - can fall to 1.8m at the edges or with a sloping ceiling.

[somebody]

Good advice - and Building Control are usually fairly amenable. I've just had them here checking progress on our loft conversion.

The engineer stipulated a dropped landing at the top of the stairs to ensure the headroom requirements. I think that for the sake of a few cm, a dropped landing is overkill - to which Building Control agreed.

I also want to push the limits a little on the staircase min/max going and rise, they've said as long as I put the figures to them, with the reasons for needing it, they will look at it and *probably" agree.

The impression I get is that as long as you ask first, they will atleast consider slight deviations from the regs.

Hth Someone

[Jonathan]

You must have nice building reg people - ours have insisted on 2m headroom on the new staircase we are putting in.

[sm_jamieson]

Sometimes you have to "remind" them of the regs. You do this by playing dumb and asking questions that lead to the answer you want. Simon.

[sm_jamieson]

I know all the building regs there are already, due to advice from this group ;-) Actually, one thing I need to find out is the escape window situation with more than one room in the loft. Cheers, Simon.

[Peter Crosland]

Use a little applied psychology! By going and talking to BC you can establish a rapport with them if you do it correctly. Then when you need to stretch the rules a bit it is much more likely that they will let you.

Peter Crosland

[Owain]

2 sounds a lot nicer, and if you're only losing a boxroom it's not as though you're losing a bedroom. Your call whether you have 1 or 2 bedrooms in the loft; a new master bedroom with en-suite is often a good choice. Bedrooms without a WC and preferably at least a shower room on the same floor would be a lot less appealing to most people.

Owain

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its 2m from nose to nose of any threads IIRC.

[The Natural Philosopher]

IIRC at least 600mm wide opening casement required in every room.

[John Rumm]

That is true for "normal" stairs, but loft conversions are allowed to deviate. See diagram 3 on page 7:

[John Rumm]

It has changed recently IIUC.

You used to be able to specify MoE roof windows (i.e. Velux type) as well as casement. However I think the version of B1 that came into force this year does away with the alternate MoE and requires more focus be placed on protecting the stairs etc.

[sm_jamieson]

Well the boxroom would fit in a bed, but I would have to nick a bit from it to get normal loft stairs in due to headroom over the existing stairs, in which case you may no longer get a bed in ! I would do the loft cleverly so doors can be fiddled with to get various configurations. Like an ensuite that can also have a door from the corridor etc. Now the option of staying a 3 bed house but with the box replaced by a master and ensuite - not sure about that. I think I need to get 2 bedrooms in the loft. Can use one as a dressing room, then set up as bedroom come sale time. Should also be space for a small bathroom up there. I like the idea of using the full width dormer for 2 rooms, since these rooms would not really feel like loft rooms. I'd put the bathroom/ensuite under the pitched roof part at the front (um, lots of fun with the soil pipe layout ..) Cheers, Simon.