Just a thought about Part P...

[Al Reynolds]

If the number of deaths/accidents increases after Part P comes in, will we hear about it?

Al

[Andy Hall]

Of course. The Electrical Contractors Association, NICEIC and ODPM will be sponsoring full page ads in the national newspapers :-)

[John Rumm]

Ah well, most of these will now be government approved deaths/accidents, and hence in real terms they will actually count as a reduction. Those that don't count as a reduction, will also not count toward the "official" accident stats because they will be deemed to be attempted suicides, since that could be the only possible explanation for an accident occurring in light of the quality nanny legislation that would without question prevent said accidents (or at any rate make them due to tax at the higher rate)!

[rd]

Oh you cynic! How can you possibly think that the nanny state wants anything but to protect us from ourselves?

Surely they know best - after all we are mortal.

Those 'suicides' from dodgy electrical work will not be hard to explain away:

A interesting statistic is that more people kill themselves every year than are killed in road traffic accidents.

With all that money being poured into speed cameras and the like to stop us from being killed on the road, one might think nanny would want to stop us killing ourselves through suicide. Total government aid to The Samaritans is, I understand, about £0.00.

Some things just don't add up. Good job for nanny that way I guess. Another of those stats is that more people in the UK are on prescription anti-depressants than voted for the TV programme Pop Idol, itself laying claim to the biggest ever UK vote. Maybe the two are linked? hehe!

[Tony Bryer]

That may or may not be of their choosing: those who make grants often then want to have an input for better or worse.

I suspect that they do get a lot of money through Gift Aid and one of Gordon Brown's best decisions was to relax the Gift Aid rules so that charities can easily reclaim an additional 28% on most donations.

[John Rumm]

They are on that one.... they are trialling computer vision CCTV systems in some of the London underground stations that claim to be able to identify typical "jumpers" in advance by studying their apparently tell tale behaviour patterns and movements.

(Minority report is getting closer!)

[usenet]

While I'm much (totally?) in sympathy with the rants about part 'P' might I point out that 'the nanny state' was put by there by *us*. It's not some totally independent being out there trying to beat us into submission, it's a load of under (or over) worked individuals probably trying to do the best they can in the circumstances.

[Al Reynolds]

Not me. And as such I retain my right to moan about them ;-)

Yes, ironically this was probably the best way they could think of to deal with the problem. I do however object to the way they seem to think they're doing us a favour.

Al

[Stanley]

I am as peeved as anyone about Part P.

A thought to bear in mind, however, is the state of wiring we come accross. I found in one house I bought a 1mm unfused feed to a wall light taken off the downstairs ring main by twisting the wires together and wrapping them all with insulation tape. The cable hung down to about 1 inch above high water level in the underfloor which appeared in wet weather. I have come accross many horrors.

There are loads of people out there producing situations like this and it is at those that Part P is aimed. Unfortunately we get caught up in cross fire.

I had a colleague in an office that I worked in who was rewiring a house for some one else. He was involved with two way switching and had a situation where some lights only came on at half brightness. Presumably an series/parallell problem. He asked me for advice! I told him that if he couldn't think that one out he shouldn't be going near electrics and to send for an electrician.

Maybe it is needed? Many other countries have similar restrictions.

I shall now hide behind something pretty darned solid and keep my head down :)

[Andy Hall]

However, I wonder how many of *us* would have voted for *them* if they thought that *they* would be involving themselves in trivial legislation like this.

The reality seems to be that trade organisations like the ECA (by their own admission) and others pushed for this for a long time and managed to hoodwink the bureaucrats concerned that this would be a Good Thing and would save lives. It's an easy political headline that allows justification of virtually anything.

[Andy Hall]

I'm sure you're right. The question is whether this legislation will make any difference to people doing things like this. I think not.

Many countries have inspection procedures, but don't tilt things such that it's as expensive to get inspected.

[Christian McArdle]

And just how much attention would a cretin that twists uninsulated cables together and lets them dangle pay to legislation? The only people affected will be the ones who are already competent. The cretins won't even hear about the legislation.

Christian.

[usenet]

If by 'us' you mean the denizens of uk.d-i-y I susppect not many.

On the other hand 'we' (as in the population at large) certainly have been voting for exactly this sort of thing overall, people want more police, more control of how things can be sold, etc., etc. When asked if you want more police and control of 'yobs' etc. most people will say yes, things like part 'P' sort of hang on the coat-tails of all this.

Yes, exactly, like many other things which 'save lives' but are done without looking at their other effects. The trouble is that on the face of it 'saving lives' is always a good thing and trying to argue against it is very difficult, especially in public/on the 'media'.

[ARWadsworth]

The conspiracy theory at my local wholesalers is

The number of deaths will rise, but official statistics will show that it is due to people still DIYing. (They stats have already been prepared). Along will come another piece of legislation to stop people who do not belong to a certified group from buying CUs and cable etc. And what better way of proving who you are at the wholesalers than by using your new ID card issued by Mr Blunkett? When the tax man looks at your books and they show you have fitted only 80 of the 120 CUs you bought using your ID card then get ready for a full investigation.

Adam

[John Rumm]

remembering that fewer of the populas at large voted for *them* than voted for Kinnock the last time he was on the wrong end of a landslide. Alas too many of *us* obviously don't give a toss one way or the other!

[tony sayer]

In article , John Rumm writes

Whatever loony thought that one up.

Got to have been, no sane sensible person would have ever put that forward as even a remotely workable idea;(

[Kalico]

Emigration anyone?

Replace 'spam' with 'org' to reply

[Kalico]

Most people take the line that "they're all as bad as each other".

When you consider that this government has introduced policies, regulations, laws etc that were looked at by the Tory government under Thatcher, but dropped as being too 'right wing', it is not hard to see why.

I know it's off-topic, but I have to wonder if the recent vote on a regional assembly in the NE did not go the way it did simply because the 'no' campaign played the line that it would mean more politicians. The fact is that we just don't like them or, largely, trust them.

Rant over - sorry.

Replace 'spam' with 'org' to reply

[Joe]

In message , Kalico writes

I assume you mean for the politicians? Non-voluntary?

[Paper2002AD]

hang on the coat-tails of all

Maybe there would be more sympathy for Part P if we did have more police (on the beat, not behind desks) and if we did have control of yobs. As it is, we do not have more police where it counts, we definitely do not have control of yobs, AND we still have to suffer crap regulations like 'P', not to mention all the other stuff handed down by our European masters