I've got to insulate an old Victorian attic room, which is effectively a lath and plaster box within the loft. The plan is to fix some kind of insulation directly to the walls from inside the loft space. It doesn't matter what it looks like as the loft isn't going to be used and, with mineral wool being that much cheaper than slabs, I wonder if there's a way of fixing that to vertical surfaces without battens. Tie it up like a parcel perhaps? Anyone tried anything similar? This is a very low budget job.....:-)
Stuart - can you expand a bit on the configuration of this room please. Do you have access to outside of all the walls of this 'box' so that you can put insulation in place ?
On the assumption you do have, I would make the comment that mineral wool may be less expensive but the difficulty of working with it in the vertical plane and of holding it in place so that it does not sag may well outweigh the additional cost of slabs. Laying mineral wool horizontally on an attic floor is unpleasant enough - trying to hold it in place above your head would I suspect be nightmare zone and potentially dangerous to your eyes and lungs.
The door end faces into the house at the top of a small staircase, and I suspect the opposite end is brick (adjoining house). One wall faces the loft space, and the dormer window wall basically follows the roof line, but I can see there's access on that side to push slabs up between the rafters. Not very well described, but I believe it's known as a maid's room. It seems to occupy the back 30% or so of the loft.
Yes, I had wondered about that. Sounds like foam or polystyrene then. Until I knock an access hole in the loft facing wall I won't really know what's going on. There are no ceiling hatches in the 1st floor rooms, which suggests there's probably no insulation up there at all. Amazing eh?
If so that would undoubtedly be better, as the stuff has better insulation properties and is more robust, so wouldn't get damaged by knocks so easily as it will be exposed (presumably). (I didn't suggest it as you said it was very low budget!)
Cheapest place for this is
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- they sell slightly damaged insulation for a lot less than builder's merchants etc. Although you'll need it in small pieces (which they also sell), best buy it in 8'x4' sheets which you can cut to size - it works out cheaper that way. Comes in 1" and 2" thick, plus higher I assume. I recently bought five 2" boards for about 100 GBP including delivery IIRC.
For low budget, use fibreglass, celotex will triple the cost and not be cost effective over one room, especially considering the walls and ceiling need doing.
As has been mentioned, fibreglass is hideous for working with, so purchase a good quality face mask and wear a decent pair of goggles (where I used to work, insulating walls and lofts, there was only me out of around 70 lads who used to suffer with fibreglass in the eyes, no one else ever used any kind of eye protection but if I didn't, my eyes would be streaming for days afterwards), wear an old boiler suit or a paper disposable one and marigold gloves, tape the joints at the wrists, overkill yes, but you'd be surprised how much stuff it keeps out....barrier cream on exposed areas can help too, a *cool* shower afterwards removes more fibres than a hot one.
Wrap the fibre around the box, as if you were lagging a tank, when it's all in place just use some nylon string to tie it in a few places, place the fibre on the 'lid' as you would any other flat surface. If you can't get the whole way around the walls, drape long lengths over the top and down each side,in a sort of 'n' shape, the remaining side may require netting, or you can just staple the whole lot on, which is what we used to do on certain contracts where insulation was required in upright situations.
I think I'm going to find no insulation at all in this loft when I get in there so, having created the access hatch, I'm wondering whether to get a firm in to do the floor, and treat the attic as a separate job. Most contractors only seem to do standard loft insulation anyway and, with energy company grants etc, it may not be worth the hassle. I've seen figures around £300 but I don't know if that's realistic in London.
That was my original idea but, being realistic, I guess you'd have to do the whole job in one session to avoid smothering the house and its occupants with fibres. As the attic is probably going to be a bit of a fiddle, I'd rather take my time over that part, and it sounds like Celotex would be better in those circumstances. Low budget gradually disappearing.......
One simple way I investigated was a sheet of 3mm or so hardboard (4 quid) , on a frame of 19*39mm timber (30p/meter), stapled on.
You fix another lath to the 'top' side, and trap the rockwool between it and the top batten, and it hangs down. This even works for horizontal surfaces.
Thanks. Sounds like there are plenty of inexpensive solutions if you're prepared to work with the stuff, but rolling it out between the joists is probably all you can do safely/comfortably.
As mentioned in my earlier post, if you take measures to minimise iritation/itching, it can be a piece of cake...when installing CWI for many years, we would occasionally be told to install loft insulation, or if the CWI dried up for any lengh of time. The regular 'loft lads' used to lay a hundred rolls every day except Sunday! Another tip (if insulating your own house) is to leave the heating off and open a few windows so that the house is as cold as possible, in winter obviously...in summer all you can do is get up there and get it finished before 9AM, or do it at night.
What do you suggest for lighting? My idea was to get in there and hang a 4ft fluorescent tube from the rafters on an extension lead. Are the little neon inspection lamps any use? I imagine you're forever banging nails into the rafters to hang them on. Also, I can't really see how having a board to stand on is particularly useful when you're walking up and down rolling the stuff out. Lugging it about would seem to be more trouble than it's worth. Thanks for your tips so far
Neon lights are the small orange/green indicators often found on freezers. Fluorescent tubes are the ones you probably mean (which do not contain significant neon).
Anyway. For lighting, I like CFLs. I bought 20 22w '100w' equivalent light bulbs in morrisons for 49.5p each, and have used them for garage lighting.
Take some 3A flex, several bayonet sockets like
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some cable clips and a few cable ties.
String the flex around with the cable clips, support the holders so that they are parallel with the roof with a cable tie to a cable clip, staple on some foil behind the light, and put in a cheap fluorescent bulb. I like this, as more light sources mean less shadows that you can't see into.
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